Iran
- Thread starter J.C.Decaux
- Start date
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
More nuanced than that - all communication with the aircraft (including all the uncommanded stuff like transponder, ASD-B etc.. ended suddenly, and then the aircraft fluttered/cartwheeled around in the air until it hot the ground. There's video of it flying/falling/burning, and it's not remotely reminiscent of any kind of controlled flight that you've ever seen.
The flight pattern (like everything else) is very reminiscent of the Malaysian shoot down over Ukraine - it fluttered down like a piece of paper dropped out of a window: forwards, backwards, upside down....
miss direct
misfungled
Because they're Iranian...Let's hope so, although why anyone would have traveled to Iran recently in the first place is anyone's guess.
Riklet
procrastinación
That plane had done like 6 trips this week already to London, Kiev, Tehran, Armenia.. just been serviced. Falls out of the sky straight after take off. Fucked up. On that plane forum those pics showing 'shrapnel holes' are proven to just be stones and rocks on the wreckage, though.
Seems hard to believe it could have been a missile anyway. I mean HOW?
Explosive materials on plane being transferred via Ukraine for possible revenge attacks? Again seems unlikely. But def something fishy with Iran's behaviour.
Seems hard to believe it could have been a missile anyway. I mean HOW?
Explosive materials on plane being transferred via Ukraine for possible revenge attacks? Again seems unlikely. But def something fishy with Iran's behaviour.
Humberto
anthropocene participant
I take it you meant me. Was a bit of a silly one that.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
The 'how/why?' is pretty easy - Tehran is surrounded buy anti-aircraft missile batteries and this happened at exactly the time that Terhan expected to be attacked by air.
Jumpy battery commander seeing what he expected to see and reacted to it - the annals of military history are bulging at the seams with incidents where someone who is tired/stressed/scared sees something that they interpret as what they are expecting/fear/hoping for and they charge at it, completely disregarding the huge pile of evidence/indicators that in fact it's very much not the thing they expect/fear/hope for.
some of the 'holes' (the ones of the fuselage by the windows) are infact pebbles/crap, but the wreckage is covered in small holes with inward facing edges.
Jumpy battery commander seeing what he expected to see and reacted to it - the annals of military history are bulging at the seams with incidents where someone who is tired/stressed/scared sees something that they interpret as what they are expecting/fear/hoping for and they charge at it, completely disregarding the huge pile of evidence/indicators that in fact it's very much not the thing they expect/fear/hope for.
some of the 'holes' (the ones of the fuselage by the windows) are infact pebbles/crap, but the wreckage is covered in small holes with inward facing edges.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Not really. It was an early morning flight, if not the first, then one of the first. Tunnel vision tells you the aircraft is descending even when the radar you're looking at tells it's ascending, tunnel vision tells you it's transponder is squawking a foreign military code even when the radar you're looking at tells you it's squawking a civilian code, tunnel vision tells you it's screaming in at Mach 1 even when your radar tells you it's doing 350kts and flying out from the airport.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There was less immediate public speculation about US reprisal attacks than I expected, though that may have been down to the time of day. Before I went to bed that night I did spot one article at thejewishpress.com that claimed multiple USAF F35A jets left Al-Dhafra air base (UAE) very soon after the Iranian missile strikes began. This story went nowhere, but its an example of the sort of thing the Iranians may have been expecting in those hours.
IRGC Fires 15 Missiles at US Bases in Iraq, Then Vows to Attack Dubai & Haifa If Iran is Bombed
The attack is seen as the "official launch" of the start of Iran's “Operation Soleimani.”
www.jewishpress.com
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
Hmmm.
According to this Forbes piece, eyewitnesses reported seeing the plane on fire before it went down.
www.forbes.com
If they could see it was on fire, couldn't they have been able to see if it was hit by a missile? Or perhaps not.
Regarding kebabking's point about tunnel vision, that may very well be the case, but what I remember from the MH17 case is that a bunch of local yokels got their hands on a bit of kit they had no business handling and said "gee, I wonder what this button does". While the AA crews at Tehran aren't necessarily the cream of the crop, I doubt if they're the kind of "Cletus the slack jawed yokel" types who manned the Ukrainian militias (someone will now post that I am misremembering the MH17 case, and misremembering it in style).
According to this Forbes piece, eyewitnesses reported seeing the plane on fire before it went down.
Ukraine Plane Was On Fire Before it Crashed In Tehran, Iranian Investigators Say
An initial report by Iranian investigators raises new questions about the circumstances of what they have described as an “accident.”
www.forbes.com
If they could see it was on fire, couldn't they have been able to see if it was hit by a missile? Or perhaps not.
Regarding kebabking's point about tunnel vision, that may very well be the case, but what I remember from the MH17 case is that a bunch of local yokels got their hands on a bit of kit they had no business handling and said "gee, I wonder what this button does". While the AA crews at Tehran aren't necessarily the cream of the crop, I doubt if they're the kind of "Cletus the slack jawed yokel" types who manned the Ukrainian militias (someone will now post that I am misremembering the MH17 case, and misremembering it in style).
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Iran pledges to kill thousands of Americans by opening gun stores across the Midwest
The notorious middle-east country Iran has announced a plan to kill thousands of Americans by opening gun stores across the midwest and selling firearms at discount prices.
newsthump.com
The notorious middle-east country Iran has announced a plan to kill thousands of Americans by opening gun stores across the midwest and selling firearms at discount prices.
With an evil cackle, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei told jubilant supporters this plan would result in the deaths of untold thousands of Americans every year.
The new stores will offer discounts of up to 10%, with a guarantee to beat the price of any gun sold at competing vendors and will give loyalty cards offered to anyone buying more than two firearms a year.
Free bullets will be included in the cost of any sale of $200 or more.
The stores will also offer expert tuition in shooting in on-site firing ranges to help ensure their customers never miss.
It is intended the new retail chain will be called ‘All-American Patriot’, and will have an extensive section devoted to easily concealed high calibre weapons with extended magazines.
“In the name of Allah, the great, the merciful, we will sell American pig-dogs high-quality guns at low, low prices,”Ayatollah Khamenei promised the cheering crowd.
“Our prices will be so low you’ll think we’re craaaaaazy!
“With a 5-year warranty and money-back guarantee if anyone shot by one of our guns survives, our rifles, shotguns and pistols will be ideal for firing at other Americans which will save us the trouble.
“They will fall upon each other like the whirlwind, like dogs, smiting each other down, praise be to God.
“More than they are already are, that is,” he added.
The National Rifle Association both welcomed and condemned the plans, saying that it was a God-given right to sell guns to Americans but they’d rather people weren’t so blatant about the consequences, thanks very much.
If the plan is successful, Iran plans to extend their reign of terror and death on the American people by opening thousands of McDonald’s franchises and cutting the price of supersized meals.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Hmmm.
According to this Forbes piece, eyewitnesses reported seeing the plane on fire before it went down.
Ukraine Plane Was On Fire Before it Crashed In Tehran, Iranian Investigators Say
An initial report by Iranian investigators raises new questions about the circumstances of what they have described as an “accident.”
If they could see it was on fire, couldn't they have been able to see if it was hit by a missile? Or perhaps not.
Regarding kebabking's point about tunnel vision, that may very well be the case, but what I remember from the MH17 case is that a bunch of local yokels got their hands on a bit of kit they had no business handling and said "gee, I wonder what this button does". While the AA crews at Tehran aren't necessarily the cream of the crop, I doubt if they're the kind of "Cletus the slack jawed yokel" types who manned the Ukrainian militias (someone will now post that I am misremembering the MH17 case, and misremembering it in style).
Take a look yourself.
Footage appearing to show Ukrainian passenger jet crashing broadcast on Iran state TV – video
A Ukrainian airliner with 180 people on board has crashed soon after taking off from Tehran's Imam Khomeini airport
weltweit
Well-Known Member
What was the timing of the Iranian ballistic missile attack on the US/Iraqi bases, and the shooting down of the airliner? It might make sense Iranian SAM operators may have been on alert in case of American planes on a counter attack. That is assuming the ballistic missile strike on the US/Iraqi army bases was before the airliner was shot down.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
It was. By several hours.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
If it was actually an engine fire then neither Boeing nor GE are going to pay out a bean in compensation, if Iran continues to refuse to handover the black boxes. They are going to want them examined by someone they consider competent, ideally the FAA though the French would probably be acceptable.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Loads.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
There's video that looks pretty convincing of the wreckage being bulldozed into a big pile - this, I would imagine, suggests a less than entirely forensic approach to the investigation....
I think Boeing and GE are off the hook.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Rumours that 'media main source' is kebabking off U75 now seem confirmed
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Cid
Proper break this time
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
They’re backtracking on the black boxes already. “Misinterpreted by a journalist” etc.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
There have been pictures on Twitter all day from an Iranian anti-government activist showing the seeker head of a TOR M1 missile that he claims were recovered from near the crash site.
It's the right seaker head, the damage to it looks right, but there was no way of confirming where it was, who found it, and indeed if it was remotely connected to this incident. The political axe of the activist didn't help either.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
They are also saying the boxes are intact but some of the memory has been lost.
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