pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
No he isn't. Say what you like about Reznor but he's a terrific producer. Manson is sub-KISS shock rock for American gothy teens.
Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism
- Thread starter frogwoman
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No he isn't. Say what you like about Reznor but he's a terrific producer. Manson is sub-KISS shock rock for American gothy teens.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
MysteryGuest
beyond boring and interesting
Colliery brass bands - the original industrial music, and still the best!
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Crackhead Colliery Band is an excellent name. 
Did a glimpse you beside the Thames a few evenings ago, MG?
Did a glimpse you beside the Thames a few evenings ago, MG?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What's the opinion on Der Blutharsch/Albin Julius?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
An idiot.
He is/was up to his neck in the occult side of nazism, a huge DIJ fanboy.
Banned from playing Tel Aviv:
Israeli MP, Yossi Sarid, explained the reason for the ban like this to the Jerusalem Post: "It is clear why Der Blutharsch wants to perform in Israel. They want to be legitimate, have an 'Israeli passport' and then become persona grata everywhere else. Against their critics, they can then say 'Who are you to call us fascists? The survivors of the Holocaust invited us.'"
Apparently was mates with Jorg Haider?!
Says he has put this stuff behind him now (don't they all?).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The reason i asked that was because i used to love the moon lay hidden beneath a cloud and only recently after going through some old stuff realised he was in it (been out of this sort of stuff for years now - apart from Rome), and that i can only now see some of the stuff they produced was beyond dodgy. Which, i guess is a demonstration of the dangers of this stuff, of producing this sort of environment that you talked about on the other thread.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Well quite.
I think the moon lay hidden beneath a cloud happened after I'd lost interest in it all...
It is annoying though - there's a few people who started out fairly interesting and then got progressively more outrageous in their imagery and proclamations.
I'm not clear if they all secretly believed this stuff at the outset, or got contaminated by the scene - I guess it's probably a combination of the two.
I think the moon lay hidden beneath a cloud happened after I'd lost interest in it all...
It is annoying though - there's a few people who started out fairly interesting and then got progressively more outrageous in their imagery and proclamations.
I'm not clear if they all secretly believed this stuff at the outset, or got contaminated by the scene - I guess it's probably a combination of the two.
seeformiles
Lost in the wood
Surprised no-one's mentioned "Whitehouse" so far in this thread - I've never been sure whether they were taking the piss or not with some of their subject matter..
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Whitehouse are another kettle of fish. Extreme "De Sadean" types. There is some very black humour in there. They are taking the piss and very serious.
No links to actual fascist groups/people/subcultures that I know of. But early eighties albums like Buchenwald and New Britain were overloaded with fascist imagery, albeit from an S&M angle.
Whitehouse mainman William Bennett once wrote an article called "The Struggle for a New Musical Culture" which included the following:
Bennett later said the article was a parody and he had also submitted articles from an extreme left and and extreme libertarian perspective. The editor of the magazine said he only received one article.
Philip Best (Whitehouse's other main member) released a bunch of shocking casette comps as a teenager including one entitled "White Power".
American author Peter Sotos was a member of Whitehouse for a while. His Pure fanzine celebrated horrific sex crimes, including those committed in nazi concentration camps (http://uncarved.org/othertexts/pure.html). He was convicted of possessing child porn.
In the noughties Whitehouse's output became a lot more subtle - much less about serial killers and nazis and more about psychological and physical abuse in general. The project is shelved for now - Bennett now makes so-so dark techno influenced by African music as "Afro Noise" (which I also have mixed feelings about).
I suspect there is a thread about them on here already but I couldn't find it.
No links to actual fascist groups/people/subcultures that I know of. But early eighties albums like Buchenwald and New Britain were overloaded with fascist imagery, albeit from an S&M angle.
Whitehouse mainman William Bennett once wrote an article called "The Struggle for a New Musical Culture" which included the following:
Bennett later said the article was a parody and he had also submitted articles from an extreme left and and extreme libertarian perspective. The editor of the magazine said he only received one article.
Philip Best (Whitehouse's other main member) released a bunch of shocking casette comps as a teenager including one entitled "White Power".
American author Peter Sotos was a member of Whitehouse for a while. His Pure fanzine celebrated horrific sex crimes, including those committed in nazi concentration camps (http://uncarved.org/othertexts/pure.html). He was convicted of possessing child porn.
In the noughties Whitehouse's output became a lot more subtle - much less about serial killers and nazis and more about psychological and physical abuse in general. The project is shelved for now - Bennett now makes so-so dark techno influenced by African music as "Afro Noise" (which I also have mixed feelings about).
I suspect there is a thread about them on here already but I couldn't find it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sotos is a wife-beating intellectual pygmy. Even the state is stronger than him.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There are connections straight through from this stuff to extreme US based racists - people who worship Manson as the 2nd coming of hitler (james mason) and spend thousands of pounds publishing their writings, in producing new editions of evola that you offer scholarly introductions for. How long can you just be interested in extremity...
(hasty sotos based edit above)
(hasty sotos based edit above)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bollocks, yep. (Sotos is a secret wife-beating intellectual)
fwiw, the mix looks intensely good... http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=19157
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think it's good that there is far less tolerance of Boyd Rice (and this stuff in general) than there used to be. When mags like The Wire and FACT run pieces or reviews of his work there are letters or comments criticising them. There's more than enough information out there for people to make up their own minds.
Shame about Sandwell District - techno elders The Black Dog were having a go about them using a boyd rice track on twitter. (Although at least in that case half of the royalties will go to the estate of the lovely Frank Tovey I guess...)
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Seems like William Bennett of Whitehouse has been experiencing some pressure of late and has felt forced to issue this statement:
http://williambennett.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/statement.html
http://williambennett.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/statement.html
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Just reminded me of the hilarious eraciator piece in your latest (thanks for which and get back on rest later).
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
TG used to fuck about with Nazi imagery quite a bit. I don't think I've ever heard e.g. Gen explain why.
junglevip
Marijuana leads to heron
Colliery brass bands - the original industrial music, and still the best!
Joking aside, these boys can play! They'd out drink the hardest of rock band piece of piss and the volume is immense!!!!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Transgression man.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
exploring the darker side of humanity, maaaaaaan
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Well yes. To paraphrase the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies, 'well he (the old tart) would say that wouldn't he?'
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think Gen became aware that that stuff was a dead end towards the end of TG though. He certainly had no truck with Boyd Rice when Boyd started coming out with proper fascist stuff in the late eighties.
After TG, Gen had married Paula, who was born and bred in Hackney and went to school with Mel and Kim - can't help feeling she had a positive influence on him. Mind you, he still had a piece of what he reckoned was Adolf Hitler's cutlery when I stayed with him in Brighton in the 90s.
After TG, Gen had married Paula, who was born and bred in Hackney and went to school with Mel and Kim - can't help feeling she had a positive influence on him. Mind you, he still had a piece of what he reckoned was Adolf Hitler's cutlery when I stayed with him in Brighton in the 90s.
ouchmonkey
Singe Gainsbourg
I'm interested in what you think about this Fozzie.
he has always 'wriggled like a fucking eel' as it were to maintain ambivalence so it seems a big step to make such a plain statement as he has....
I like the Cut Hands stuff and he does seem very sincere in his love for the sources he's drawing on.
there was a mix (for FACT I think?) he did of that kind of haitian voodoo and african drumming stuff and it's totally killer, and he was at pains in his description of it to let people know he was respectful...
it's seemed to me that it's only his past that makes it problematic for people
which is fair enough. Sotos in particular is vermin
as best I can tell there's no gratuitous sampling in the cut hands stuff, he's using those rhythmic ideas in programming very hard techno tracks.
I'd contrast this with the recent Four Tet 12" 'That track that I've been playing that everyone has been asking about and has a really stupid long title...'
which seems to be a loop of african chants and drums with a little added electronic percussion...
I know we're drifting away from fascism to cultural appropriation here but based on these records Bennett is again getting grief and that lovely Keiran Hebden feller? no one bats an eye
which doesn't stack up quite right to me
....
tbh i think if you spend part of your career flirting with nazi shit, then most of the rest of it being enigmatic about whether you were serious or not, then you're fair game for people giving you shit (FTR, i also like the cut hands output, and some of the whitehouse stuff. but then, i been listening to boyd rice lately).
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