Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism

[temper_tantrum]

Thing is, he was named after his grandfather. (Who was in no way a Nazi, before anyone asks)

Edit: Will stop derailing now, promise.

 

[IC3D]

Thing is, he was named after his grandfather.

Edit: Will stop derailing now, promise.

The German dictator?

 

[frogwoman]

Sounds like typical swappies being idiots then.

 

[frogwoman]

Reminds me of an argument I had with a Swappie friend of my sister's, who seriously said that the name 'Adolf' should be banned because it was just too offensive for anyone to be called that. (This is in the context of a friend of theirs having it as his middle name; she said it was tantamout to child abuse ). We did try to establish whether 'Josef' or 'Winston' were acceptable, but couldn't get a coherent answer ...
Sorry, frogwoman, this is totally off-topic

yeh i sppose your right, nobody should be called josef (or joseph) in case it offends muslims, jews, crimean tartars, chechens, ukrainians, moldovans or anyone else that he murdered. or trots for that matter

 

[spawnofsatan]

I know its not industrial, but the last time I saw Marilyn Manson live (Feel free to abuse away) the whole imagery was very disturbing, this was his Weimar decadence phase.

1000's of young gothettes raising fists really did put remind me of a Leni Riefenstahl film, most disturbing.

 

[frogwoman]

Fucking hell.

 

[discokermit]

Sounds like typical swappies being idiots then.

not typical but a minority. when i was in we would have stupid arguments like that within the branch.

 

[TopCat]

I know its not industrial, but the last time I saw Marilyn Manson live (Feel free to abuse away) the whole imagery was very disturbing, this was his Weimar decadence phase.

1000's of young gothettes raising fists really did put remind me of a Leni Riefenstahl film, most disturbing.

What a racket.

 

[Pingu]

 

[spawnofsatan]

One of the best bands i've ever seen live!

 

[butchersapron]

Shocking stuff etc

 

[rekil]

Shocking stuff etc

Reminds me of Marilyn Manson Now Going Door-To-Door Trying To Shock People.

Last Friday at 4 p.m., Mark Wesley, 46, a resident of Overland Park's exclusive Maple Bluff subdivision, heard the sound of "animal-like shrieking" coming from the vicinity of his front lawn. Upon opening his front door, he was greeted by the sight of a pale and shirtless Manson carving a pentagram into his chest with a razor blade.

"Look at me, suburban dung," Manson told Wesley. "Does this shock you?"

When Wesley replied no, he said Manson became "petulant."

 

[Pingu]

One of the best bands i've ever seen live!

aye their stageshow is something special

 

[frogwoman]

not typical but a minority. when i was in we would have stupid arguments like that within the branch.

to be fair there are probably a few people like that in the sp, i know one guy who i can imagine having those types of views

 

[frogwoman]

Reminds me of Marilyn Manson Now Going Door-To-Door Trying To Shock People.

Did you know that he had ribs removed so that he can suck his own willy?

 

[killer b]

So did marc almond, and that bloke from erasure. Or did he have to get his stomach pumped 'cause of the amount of semen he'd swallowed? I forget...

 

[rekil]

Did you know that he had ribs removed so that he can suck his own willy?

That's a Brian for you. That's a very Brian thing to do.

 

[killer b]

rammstein actually are nazis aren't they? dodgy fuckers anyway...

 

[stupid dogbot]

They're actually rubbish, dunno about their politics.

 

[frogwoman]

rammstein actually are nazis aren't they? dodgy fuckers anyway...

Seriously?! I never knew that, and I always liked them

 

[Idris2002]

The two twats who did the Columbine massacre were Rammstein fans, weren't they?

Also, I think Rammstein is where the US army has one of its biggest military hospitals.

 

[killer b]

famously KMFDM, manson and the like, so maybe (although i don't think they were particularly well known at the time). not that it means anything, mind: harold shipman was a big fan of the spice girls.

 

[RaverDrew]

Did you know that he had ribs removed so that he can suck his own willy?

Nah that was Prince.

 

[rekil]

They're actually rubbish, dunno about their politics.

I like Mann Gegen Mann, and Rosen Rot is a fantastic tune. Then again, I had them blared at me in a car all the way from Berlin to Hirtshals in Denmark so my judgement is perhaps somewhat impaired.

 

[Cloo]

Yes, the fascism as taboo thing I'm sure is just a visual thing for a lot of industrial stuff, like twats who wear Nazi symbols/uniforms to fetish clubs. I don't believe any of them are actually fascists, just extremely lacking in taste and sensitivity.

 

[killer b]

some of them are, tbf. but they are vastly outnumbered by the cheap shockmongers.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I was reading a very interesting website last night (www.whomakesthenazis.com) which claimed among other things that some neo-nazis were deeply involved the industrial music scene and the punk scene as well as other subcultures, but also that a lot of the bands that are in that scene have been openly or covertyl fascist, and that their aim in producing a lot of their music was to infiltrate those ideas into the industrial culture.

I'm not sure about this being a massive fan of industrial music myself, but I will say that several bands do use fascist iconography and lyrics with certain messages in them, album covers, etc, which could be interpreted as being a bit dodgy (these tends not to be the ones I listen to).

But some of them, like Laibach etc, are just doing it to shock and many are actually socialists or anarchists, and it often becomes clear if you listen to the lyrics in more depth. Some of them make music about the second world war, but from a standpoint of being opposed to it.
But nonetheless there does seem to be a few fans who seem quite attracted to the ideas of the far right because of the music's whole "image" and I know a few people who are put off listening to it for that reason. But what Im wondering is to what extent there is anything more than that, and how this whole thing came about tbh.

Im sorry if this is too deep a thread for the music forum but as I said I was reading this website last night and was interested to see what people thought about it.

Apologies for missing this until now.

I think the whomakesthenazis site is often misunderstood. I don't think it is claiming that "a lot" of the bands are fascist, but that some of them are and that this is worth looking into - as is a more general exploration of fascist aesthetics in industrial music and neofolk.

Fascism in industrial music is not a mass movement (it's a sub-subculture!) but I would argue that it seeks to be influential at a cultural level, which is necessarily a bit more subtle than overtly fascist music.

 

[pk]

Yeah, which is why I am wondering how much of an influence far-right ideas really have in the industrial music scene and how much of a "problem" it really is. How much has the fash music scene grown since the early 90s pickmans? I'd have imagined that it wouldn't be such a big deal as it once was because of the decline of the music industry in general?

The only relatively industrial scene that was tainted by fash I can think of is the gabba scene - mostly bourne out of Dutch football hoolies.

 

[pk]

rammstein actually are nazis aren't they?

Erm, no.

And since when was Marilyn Manson considered "industrial"??

I think of industrial music and I think of Front242, Combichrist, Nitzer Ebb, Test Department, Ministry, NIN, Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, VNV Nation.

None of those I would consider to be espousing a fash viewpoint.

 

[DotCommunist]

Marylin Manson pretty much is NIN with a side order of satanism to provokle CD shifting moral outrage in americans.