I joined the Labour Party...

[ViolentPanda]

Really? I didn't think that issues like that bothered the Corbynjugend one little bit. His electorate voted him in for his ideological purity, not for what the focus groups of Nuneaton would think.

Corbynjugend? Even for a new Labour tosser of your ilk, that's a pretty pathetic smear.

 

[nino_savatte]

Really? I didn't think that issues like that bothered the Corbynjugend one little bit. His electorate voted him in for his ideological purity, not for what the focus groups of Nuneaton would think.

Corbynjugend? Dodgy... very dodgy. That says a lot about you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'ideological purity'? Please, put down the Dan Hodges and engage a brain. People voted for him because of his principles, which is a rather different thing.

I suspect that you'll need to explain "principles" to Maurice.

 

[J Ed]

Corbynjugend? Even for a new Labour tosser of your ilk, that's a pretty pathetic smear.

I actually joined one of the anti-Corbyn Labour facebook groups to get a real sense of what the specific grievances were. It was really interesting, it was mostly made up of people who were obviously business owners whose profile pictures featured them wearing items of clothing worth a lot more than my monthly salary. A few could articulate the sort of complaints that you would expect from your average Tory - that Corbyn wants to raise taxes, that he is against capitalism and he hates Britain but what was interesting is just how many were obviously motivated by the fact that they seemed to believe and regurgitate whatever slur they had read or heard in the media. Very few actual ideas.

I posed a question as a supporter of the group and someone against Corbyn commenting that while I agreed with everything they said, and thought that Corbyn had to go as soon as possible, 'we' should come up with policies that differentiate Labour 'moderates' from both the Tories and Corbyn. I invited suggestions, and what did I get? A litany of complaints about Corbyn without any actual substance or criticism of his policies let alone articulation of new policies and praise for George Osborne.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I actually joined one of the anti-Corbyn Labour facebook groups to get a real sense of what the specific grievances were. It was really interesting, it was mostly made up of people who were obviously business owners whose profile pictures featured them wearing items of clothing worth a lot more than my monthly salary. A few could articulate the sort of complaints that you would expect from your average Tory - that Corbyn wants to raise taxes, that he is against capitalism and he hates Britain but what was interesting is just how many were obviously motivated by the fact that they seemed to believe and regurgitate whatever slur they had read or heard in the media. Very few actual ideas.

I posed a question as a supporter of the group and someone against Corbyn commenting that while I agreed with everything they said, and thought that Corbyn had to go as soon as possible, 'we' should come up with policies that differentiate Labour 'moderates' from both the Tories and Corbyn. I invited suggestions, and what did I get? A litany of complaints about Corbyn without any actual substance or criticism of his policies let alone articulation of new policies and praise for George Osborne.

I'm not really surprised. The"moderates"/rightists in my CLP (the backed Kendall, that's how far gone they are!) are similarly bereft of any substantive ideas beyond the usual "let's be more Tory than the Tories". Most of them can't even see why people don't want that.

 

[J Ed]

I'm not really surprised. The"moderates"/rightists in my CLP (the backed Kendall, that's how far gone they are!) are similarly bereft of any substantive ideas beyond the usual "let's be more Tory than the Tories". Most of them can't even see why people don't want that.

It's worse than that, they think that it is the only thing that anyone really wants deep down and subsequently they are furious with 'the Trots' for not letting them put their red Tory agenda to the people who are desperate for it.

 

[youngian]

What wouldn't they understand, the social democratic economics or the vapid hot air?

I was referring to the vapid hot air of Corbyn's leadership contender opponents. I had little idea what Yvette Cooper was talking about, so I don't expect those who aren't left wing political anoraks like me to have much chance

 

[DotCommunist]

Corbynjugend? Are you having some sort of break down?

he's been spitting blood since those ungrateful bastards in scotland refused to vote labour(led by jim '9 years in student politics' murphy)

 

[youngian]

A litany of complaints about Corbyn without any actual substance or criticism of his policies let alone articulation of new policies and praise for George Osborne.

Osborne is a magpie and I noticed he advocated using public sector and local government pensions funds to directly invest in regional infrastructure projects. Bad Bolshevism when McDonnell advocates it, centrist common sense when Osborne puts it on the agenda. The question is would Osborne even be going there if Liz Kendall was elected Labour leader?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's worse than that, they think that it is the only thing that anyone really wants deep down and subsequently they are furious with 'the Trots' for not letting them put their red Tory agenda to the people who are desperate for it.

I have to admit that the poorly-informed use of the "t" word by the commentator has kept me amused since Corbyn's candidature was announced. Many of them come across as not actually knowing what the word means,

 

[DotCommunist]

I have to admit that the poorly-informed use of the "t" word by the commentator has kept me amused since Corbyn's candidature was announced. Many of them come across as not actually knowing what the word means,

they know it as a catch all insult for anyone to the left of st. blair. Good company to keep- Gove's fond of using it as an insult too. Except I think he knows exactly what it means. The pob faced cunt

 

[sihhi]

Osborne is a magpie and I noticed he advocated using public sector and local government pensions funds to directly invest in regional infrastructure projects. Bad Bolshevism when McDonnell advocates it, centrist common sense when Osborne puts it on the agenda. The question is would Osborne even be going there if Liz Kendall was elected Labour leader?

Yes, because capital - making money from money - needs infrastructure.

 

[Mation]

I went to my first local ward meeting this evening and was really encouraged. There were apparently 2, 3, even 4 times the usual number of people there. Several were new members who joined because of Jeremy Corbyn and the possibilities his election might entail. A few were ex-members who'd resigned on a principle (mostly Iraq) and had now re-joined. Some were long-standing members who hadn't previously been active. Just over half were white. Just over half were obviously middle class.

We spent a lot of time - too much, in several people's vocal opinion - hearing from a Labour council cabinet member about how they were going to implement Tory budget cuts (and about how we needed to get out there and doorstep people to explain why we needed to make them). The main response, from several people, was: "why are you doing this?"; "what would happen if you didn't?"; "can you explain the difference between what you're doing and a Tory council?".

The Chair tried to suggest that we shouldn't turn against each other and that it didn't matter who we'd voted for in the leadership contest; the important thing is to get into power [read: never mind the policies]. Several people explained to him (politely) that he was talking bollocks and that we expect to be able to say what we think.

Heh. We reorganised the seating from top table and front-facing rows to a circle, so we could see and hear each other better.

We postponed a vote on a motion (on Trident) we hadn't had sufficient time to discuss and consider (most were against renewal but wanted a proper chance to be very clear about the wording such that it couldn't be used to implement the letter, instead of the spirit, of the law. And we scheduled a future agenda item on Labour Party process, so that we can all understand what happens now, whether we're happy with that and what we can do to make changes.

(When I say we, btw, I mean we who were at the meeting and seemed to have the majority view, rather than we, my people now.)

Nothing incredibly dramatic, but an encouraging beginning. It wasn't boring. It went on long after it was meant to and no-one left (bar the cabinet member). It was worth going.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The main response, from several people, was: "why are you doing this?"; "what would happen if you didn't?"; "can you explain the difference between what you're doing and a Tory council?".

What would happen (if council set an illegal budget) is that the councillors would get disqualified from office, and commissars from central government would get parachuted in to run things.

At one time, councillors were liable to 'surcharge' (i.e. being held personally liable for financial fuck-ups, all very well for the likes of dame shirley porter who could move stuff offshore, but less so for the average councillor who could face personal bankruptcy) - I'm not entirely sure this is still the case. Fairly sure it was during the ratecapping / "loony left" era in the 80s. (see article on Ted Knight)

One argument is that outright refusal to set a cuts budget would be pointless gesture politics and leave residents worse off than if a labour council implemented cuts in as caring a way as possible.

Another argument is that labour councillors should have the balls to stand up to this shit and tell the government to fuck off.

They did in the 20s in Poplar, and a number of councillors ended up in the clink (although not sure that being sent down doesn't now automatically disbar someone from elected office)

this mural marks the Poplar Rates Rebellion (more here) - something similar happened in Clay Cross (Derbyshire) in the early 70s.

Apologies for the fairly rushed 'research' here. It's late. I'm tired...

 

[Pickman's model]

fair play to you, TopCat and Mation

 

[cantsin]

I actually joined one of the anti-Corbyn Labour facebook groups to get a real sense of what the specific grievances were. It was really interesting, it was mostly made up of people who were obviously business owners whose profile pictures featured them wearing items of clothing worth a lot more than my monthly salary. A few could articulate the sort of complaints that you would expect from your average Tory - that Corbyn wants to raise taxes, that he is against capitalism and he hates Britain but what was interesting is just how many were obviously motivated by the fact that they seemed to believe and regurgitate whatever slur they had read or heard in the media. Very few actual ideas.

I posed a question as a supporter of the group and someone against Corbyn commenting that while I agreed with everything they said, and thought that Corbyn had to go as soon as possible, 'we' should come up with policies that differentiate Labour 'moderates' from both the Tories and Corbyn. I invited suggestions, and what did I get? A litany of complaints about Corbyn without any actual substance or criticism of his policies let alone articulation of new policies and praise for George Osborne.

Can we go and have look plse ? ( name of group / page ? No " board invasion" type antics, promise)

 

[J Ed]

Can we all go and have look plse ? ( name of group / page ? )

Log in to Facebook | Facebook

 

[cantsin]

Log in to Facebook | Facebook

thanks - interesting

 

[Mation]

What would happen (if council set an illegal budget) is that the councillors would get disqualified from office, and commissars from central government would get parachuted in to run things.

At one time, councillors were liable to 'surcharge' (i.e. being held personally liable for financial fuck-ups, all very well for the likes of dame shirley porter who could move stuff offshore, but less so for the average councillor who could face personal bankruptcy) - I'm not entirely sure this is still the case. Fairly sure it was during the ratecapping / "loony left" era in the 80s. (see article on Ted Knight)

One argument is that outright refusal to set a cuts budget would be pointless gesture politics and leave residents worse off than if a labour council implemented cuts in as caring a way as possible.

Another argument is that labour councillors should have the balls to stand up to this shit and tell the government to fuck off.

They did in the 20s in Poplar, and a number of councillors ended up in the clink (although not sure that being sent down doesn't now automatically disbar someone from elected office)

this mural marks the Poplar Rates Rebellion (more here) - something similar happened in Clay Cross (Derbyshire) in the early 70s.

Apologies for the fairly rushed 'research' here. It's late. I'm tired...

Thank you - I didn't know about that. I can't imagine there'd be much appetite for it now.

 

[Rob Ray]

Thank you - I didn't know about that. I can't imagine there'd be much appetite for it now.

That tends the be the process, yes. Colin Ward and Ruth Rendell did quite a good job of explaining how the centralisation process was gutting councils as agents of reform back in the '80s.

 

[tony.c]

Well I have received my membership card, an email invitation to submit questions for PMQs, and an invitation to my CLP's General Management Committee meeting. I haven't heard anything from my Ward party yet, so maybe they are defunct now.
I've also received a notice about a public meeting against the proposed new anti-union legislation, with the local MP speaking with TU speakers. It's jointly organised by the CLP and the local Trades Council. It's the first time to my knowledge that the CLP has ever held a public meeting. I will probably go to check out my new comrades.

 

[sunn]

I went to a local Labour social to find out what the local Labour folk were like and to find out what the general feeling was about Corbyn. To my surprise (I live in IDS' constituency) they were all huge Corbyn supporters and massively enthused about his win, I ended up having really good time. Not sure what the CLP is going to be like but I'm going to have a nose around at the next meeting.

 

[Brainaddict]

What would happen (if council set an illegal budget) is that the councillors would get disqualified from office, and commissars from central government would get parachuted in to run things.

Yes, but at the risk of stating something that's probably obvious to everyone on here, if one or two labour councils refused to implement cuts, those councils would have a problem, if hundreds, even thousands of labour councils refused to implement the cuts, the central government would have a problem.

And what the hell is the point of having a national party organisation if you can't co-ordinate that kind of thing?

Admittedly there is a bit of a presentation issue with it, as it pits local democracy against national democracy, and no-one really thinks their local council is very democratic - they are almost defined by their lack of democracy in most people's eyes. So it's not a strategy without problems. But being a bunch of Tories is also not a strategy without problems for the Labour Party, so....

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Yes, but at the risk of stating something that's probably obvious to everyone on here, if one or two labour councils refused to implement cuts, those councils would have a problem, if hundreds, even thousands of labour councils refused to implement the cuts, the central government would have a problem

I know what you mean.

Although not sure there are hundreds of labour councils. Even assuming all the blairites went along with it, they would probably not get this through in those councils where labour is a minority / 'no overall control' administration relying on support from smaller parties.

And quite a few labour councils did stand up to the thatcher government, and the tories used it as justification for stripping even more powers from councils, and peddling the line that labour couldn't be trusted to run things, which to a large extent, the public bought.

 

[treelover]

I went to a local Labour social to find out what the local Labour folk were like and to find out what the general feeling was about Corbyn. To my surprise (I live in IDS' constituency) they were all huge Corbyn supporters and massively enthused about his win, I ended up having really good time. Not sure what the CLP is going to be like but I'm going to have a nose around at the next meeting.

I think the CLP will be quite different, isn't that where they vote on decisions made by the cabinet members?, here they have charged the maximum council tax for unemployed and disabled people, not sure i want to be with people who agreed to that, if this is the case, they were also too silent on such issues.

 

[tony.c]

I think the CLP will be quite different, isn't that where they vote on decisions made by the cabinet members?

No CLP is the Constituency Labour Party, ie all the Labour Party members in that constituency. They do not vote on Council decisions. They might discuss council matters and perhaps pass resolutions about something which is happening on the council, but it wouldn't be binding on councillors.
The Labour Group Councillors would discuss matters going on in the Council and on decisions made by the cabinet members, but they will usually go with the guidance of the cabinet members.

 

[ice-is-forming]

My local Labour mp phoned me up today, we've never met or spoken before. He said that he followed my posts on facebook & was very impressed

 

[cantsin]

My local Labour mp phoned me up today, we've never met or spoken before. He said that he followed my posts on facebook & was very impressed

wow - what sort of stuff have you been posting as a matter of interest ?

 

[emanymton]

My local Labour mp phoned me up today, we've never met or spoken before. He said that he followed my posts on facebook & was very impressed

That's not something to brag about on here if you ask me.

 

[Coolfonz]

I went to my first local ward meeting this evening and was really encouraged. There were apparently 2, 3, even 4 times the usual number of people there. Several were new members who joined because of Jeremy Corbyn and the possibilities his election might entail. A few were ex-members who'd resigned on a principle (mostly Iraq) and had now re-joined. Some were long-standing members who hadn't previously been active. Just over half were white. Just over half were obviously middle class.

We spent a lot of time - too much, in several people's vocal opinion - hearing from a Labour council cabinet member about how they were going to implement Tory budget cuts (and about how we needed to get out there and doorstep people to explain why we needed to make them). The main response, from several people, was: "why are you doing this?"; "what would happen if you didn't?"; "can you explain the difference between what you're doing and a Tory council?".

The Chair tried to suggest that we shouldn't turn against each other and that it didn't matter who we'd voted for in the leadership contest; the important thing is to get into power [read: never mind the policies]. Several people explained to him (politely) that he was talking bollocks and that we expect to be able to say what we think.

Heh. We reorganised the seating from top table and front-facing rows to a circle, so we could see and hear each other better.

We postponed a vote on a motion (on Trident) we hadn't had sufficient time to discuss and consider (most were against renewal but wanted a proper chance to be very clear about the wording such that it couldn't be used to implement the letter, instead of the spirit, of the law. And we scheduled a future agenda item on Labour Party process, so that we can all understand what happens now, whether we're happy with that and what we can do to make changes.

(When I say we, btw, I mean we who were at the meeting and seemed to have the majority view, rather than we, my people now.)

Nothing incredibly dramatic, but an encouraging beginning. It wasn't boring. It went on long after it was meant to and no-one left (bar the cabinet member). It was worth going.

Did you get anything good from the coat rack?