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Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

He's probably rewiring a plug. I'm really glad I missed Sir Odin's reposte before he got banished yesterday. Only Stormfront would wholeheartedly concur that I'm 'non-white' by the way. *disclosure*


Bimble,

I was actually off to get me’ tea! (The ‘missus’ made me get me own – and hers! I may have to go all Quran 4:34 on her!)

I don’t know if this is going off piste, but…
Back in the 90s, I used to have an Iranian partner. Ex-Muslim, Atheist. We weren’t married.
Under Islamic law, she was guilty of four offences:

Adultery (relations outside marriage is treated as adultery), relations with a non-Muslim, apostasy and atheism.

All four are forbidden in Islam. Three of these carry a death sentence. The fourth (apostasy) is a capital offence for males, though same Muslim jurists maintain that a women guilty of apostasy should simply be incarcerated until such time as she returns to Islam.
We chose not to travel together in the Muslim world.

So can i ask you: what do you think?
Should I criticise the religious and legal order that would have murdered my partner three or four times over?
Do any of those rulings bother you?
 
Thomsy how come even when prompted you don't produce an example of this famous islamick tradition from before c.2010?

You tell me - and hopefully you'll know this one. When was Mohammed born? Were the things done during his lifetime, the things which form the basis of Islamic law, pre or post 2010? Where do think Islam's law on non-Muslims and sex in general derives its legitimacy?

You passed beyond the pale of politeness some time ago. I am now finding it difficult to take you seriously at all.

For goodness sake, read some books before you come back. Read a biography of the Prophet. Anything.
 
Interesting article here about the Finnish social media debate. You may recall the Finnish cops claim to have been tipped off by someone at the refuge centre about a plan to do some mass sexual assaults and foiled it by breaking up a gang of asylum seekers congregating near the NYE crowds before they could commit any crimes on the scale of Cologne. Which is very interesting if true. The Finnish cops aren't being slammed by the media for being useless, so I'd say they have less obvious motives for telling porkies.

Sexual harassment topic ignites social media debate

Eta although they still have the obvious one for exaggerating ...

NBI: No German link in Helsinki train station incident. (See also)
 
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Bimble,

I was actually off to get me’ tea! (The ‘missus’ made me get me own – and hers! I may have to go all Quran 4:34 on her!)

I don’t know if this is going off piste, but…
Back in the 90s, I used to have an Iranian partner. Ex-Muslim, Atheist. We weren’t married.
Under Islamic law, she was guilty of four offences:

Adultery (relations outside marriage is treated as adultery), relations with a non-Muslim, apostasy and atheism.

All four are forbidden in Islam. Three of these carry a death sentence. The fourth (apostasy) is a capital offence for males, though same Muslim jurists maintain that a women guilty of apostasy should simply be incarcerated until such time as she returns to Islam.
We chose not to travel together in the Muslim world.

So can i ask you: what do you think?
Should I criticise the religious and legal order that would have murdered my partner three or four times over?
Do any of those rulings bother you?

Thomsy,
You had to get your own tea? disgusting behaviour.

I think you should absolutely do that yes please ( criticise the religious and legal order that would have murdered your partner three or four times over).
Yes they do, they bother me, a lot. That's why I am (in the context of this place) being bold enough to suggest that women's rights & consent & the achievements of feminism classes should be a compulsory addition to the citizenship tests which are currently all about nonsense.

What also bothers me though is the fact that the film 'India's Daughter', which exposes 'rape culture' endemic up to the highest levels of the social order, was banned from India for instance.

I just think you're barking up a related but slightly wrong tree with your focus on the Koran.

And you never answered about whether you really think the men who did what they did in Cologne on NYE were somehow 'Islamic militants'.

Which the men in Tahrir square presumably were not?
 
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You tell me - and hopefully you'll know this one. When was Mohammed born? Were the things done during his lifetime, the things which form the basis of Islamic law, pre or post 2010? Where do think Islam's law on non-Muslims and sex in general derives its legitimacy?

You passed beyond the pale of politeness some time ago. I am now finding it difficult to take you seriously at all.

For goodness sake, read some books before you come back. Read a biography of the Prophet. Anything.
you said all these things from rochdale to god knows where all part of this islamick thing yet even when pressed on the point there's something like 1400 years of silence. you whimper on about my reading a book, if this is so core to islam then you shouldn't need me to do your research for you. you should be able to say 'here, here and here'. but no, you're unable to produce a real shred of evidence linking what's in the koran with koln. give it up.
 
"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."

Deuteronomy 13:15

"And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them" (same book, 7:2)

:(
 
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Why are so many liberals right across the West trying to obsfuscate what happened on NYE, etc?
Is that a real question?
I suspect you secretly know why. Because it's really difficult and uncomfortable and confusing.
So much confusing that I can't even get attacked for standing in the stocks & suggesting compulsory basic women's rights classes for all recent arrivals into (relatively) sexually liberated western places, etc.
 
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Is that a real question?
I suspect you secretly know why. Because it's really difficult and uncomfortable and confusing. So much confusing that I can't even get attacked for standing in the stocks & suggesting compulsory basic women's rights classes for all recent arrivals into (relatively) sexually liberated western places, etc.

Yes, I think there is that. Some are also just unthinkingly reverting to the default mode of attacking what they imagine to be the problem, right-wingers being racist and simply associating people of certain backgrounds with sexual assault. This position must be maintained for them regardless of the objective reality. The same thing happened with Rotherham where groups like Hope not Hate in South Yorkshire held meetings on 'grooming gang myths' long after many already knew perfectly well what was going on.
 
Of course taking a position which cannot be questioned or deviated from regardless of what has happened or what might happen, or indeed how anyone reacts to it, while you are confronting groups which are intent on cleverly exploiting an issue and are capable and willing to change their rhetoric and tactics accordingly is not very sensible even if you are stupid enough to think it is the most moral or correct position to take.
 
Yes, I think there is that. Some are also just unthinkingly reverting to the default mode of attacking what they imagine to be the problem, right-wingers being racist and simply associating people of certain backgrounds with sexual assault. This position must be maintained for them regardless of the objective reality.
Yes. Thereby fucking up majorly - getting their right-on knickers in a twist that makes me feel very frightened.
 
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I just think you're barking up a related but slightly wrong tree with your focus on the Koran.

And you never answered about whether you really think the men who did what they did in Cologne on NYE were somehow 'Islamic militants'.

Which the men in Tahrir square presumably were not?

.....surely both sex abuse targeted against non-muslims in Cologne and fellow-muslims in Tahrir Square can both arise from the same source such that one becomes virtually a predictor of the other.....

...see e.g. also Rotherham....

The Last Taboo?, File on 4 - BBC Radio 4

While the victims of recent grooming scandals have mostly been white girls, campaigners say Asian boys and girls have also been subjected to abuse over many years.

Hi Bimble.

As you may know, there are three main distinctions of status at the heart of Islamic doctrine: Muslim / non-Muslim; male / female; free / slave.
Each of those is a boundary which has to be policed. And policed, if necessary, with violence.
 
from what i'm told similar scenes have been known in grimsby, you're barking up the racist tree here when this isn't a uniquely me phenomenon

Nothing in the news about mob sexual attacks in Grimsby strangely.

Even the paras off duty don't do that shitting from the rafters or stapling their own foreskins to a pub table yes: mass attempts at sexual assualt in public no and well they are paras:facepalm:
 
Nothing in the news about mob sexual attacks in Grimsby strangely.

Even the paras off duty don't do that shitting from the rafters or stapling their own foreskins to a pub table yes: mass attempts at sexual assualt in public no and well they are paras:facepalm:
if you read my post you'll notice i didn't say it would be in the news but that they had been known
 
when pressed on the point there's something like 1400 years of silence. you whimper on about my reading a book.

I wouldn't knock books, if I were you. Not based on the quality of your posts.

Try Ronald Segal, Islam’s Black Slaves - it covers Islam's intrusion into the Nile-basin and sub-Saharan African.

For the Balkans, you might try Bat Ye’or’s The Decline of Eastern Christianity under IslamFrom Jihad to Dhimmitude. (Bat Ye’or is not an objective historian. But she gathers masses of testimony and documentation of the type which might help satisfy your need.)
 
The infamous Cambridge Rapist? I surely was - many of us totally avoided Midsummer Common...although Peter Cook's MO mostly consisted of crawling through open windows rather than lurking in dark open places.

As a rule, I don't walk fearfully about fearing assault and molestation...but nonetheless, I have been grimly aware that the culture of contempt and derision for women has not really gone away. It is difficult to be cool and objective about this because in many ways, ribald comments and an overt sexual openness is common - very hard to disentangle who is doing what and why.
I have spent many years travelling in N.Africa and India and Turkey and curiously, walking down an Arabic street is exactly the same as walking down a British street - no-one is grabbing, mauling and poking...and in arab family homes, I failed to detect a sniff of rancid anti-female oppression. For sure, cultural norms vary but I swear, the behaviour demonstrated by the men on NYE would have been as loathed and condemned in Turkey as it is in Germany. However, somewhere, there has been a failure to examine the possible repercussions of dealing with an enormous and almost overnight influx of people - many young men who, in every culture, even amongst primates, tend to be a source of anxiety and aggression. Moreover, it is simply disingenuous and evasive to fail to grasp the implications for women when they are being systematically singled out for punishment by an oppressive religious system - not unlike Christian fundamentalists, debased Imams, the hateful Hindu caste system - women - especially their wombs - are both hated and revered in a deeply objectifying and demoralising system. We can...and must continue to speak about about this and should not be shy to name and shame those differences which keep us chained. Honour killings for example - no need to be mealy mouthed - the whole sorry system involves the usual separation of categories and persecution of weaker entities. It is neither racist nor right wing to point out these oppressions...and organise to maintain a legal consensus of what is right and not right and ensure justice is seen to be done.

Not exactly OT but relevant, I think, in a wider sense - I have been sickened by the recent expose of violence in the young offender system but 2 things were immediately apparent. How violence and hate propagates itself in a fertile environment - a culture if you like...and the total disconnect between the underpaid, undertrained staff and the management - none of whom will ever have set foot in one of these places, who are totally unaccountable and who are confident that they, personally, will never suffer the disgusting brutality being meted out to youngsters who's only worth (under capitalism) is as a means to generate funding and employment. Not unlike the political system. There will never be any emphasis on help or rehabilitation because it is in the interests of G4S to maintain the status quo. Whilst there are always some sick fucks who are attracted by the possibilities of violence, many others will have been gradually inducted in a slyly complicit culture of denigration - a true them and us.
Not OTT at all, a very well argued position.
 
I wouldn't knock books, if I were you. Not based on the quality of your posts.

Try Ronald Segal, Islam’s Black Slaves - it covers Islam's intrusion into the Nile-basin and sub-Saharan African.

For the Balkans, you might try Bat Ye’or’s The Decline of Eastern Christianity under IslamFrom Jihad to Dhimmitude. (Bat Ye’or is not an objective historian. But she gathers masses of testimony and documentation of the type which might help satisfy your need.)
all very good but all i wanted was for you to illustrate your argument with an example of something similar to what happened in cologne from islamick history. not much to ask, i'd have thought: but all you say is read this book or read that book. if you cannot point to a similar instance then perhaps you should reconsider your claim. i say again: women's clothing, their wallets and phones not much in the way of plunder.
 
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Ok. You win the cynic of the day award. :)

Pah, I'm "Cynic of the Year" material!
Thing is, I'm not sure it's cynical to say that universities are doing this to protect themselves from lawsuits, because organisations per se, but especially money-making institutions, tend to be massively risk-averse, and consent classes are effectively a cheap form of insurance for universities.

Was bringing up consent classes because .. I'm trying to be brave enough to admit that I haven't got a better idea so that's my best one:
Compulsory classes in Consent - and women's rights - and the history of feminism - and the law as it bears on these issues - compulsory several days of classes for ALL people newly arrived. And all those at secondary school.

I'm not against the idea of consent classes - in fact, earlier in the thread I said I'd like to see such classes as part of the "civics" curriculum in secondary schools.
 
Nobody...absolutely nobody...on this thread is saying that all refugees should be a tarred with the same brush . Nobody has either said that or implied it . And to suggest anyone has is the height of dishonesty . Dishonesty with an agenda behind it. Namely, if someone doesn't support your one world , no borders libertarian utopia then they're a racist

Did I say that of anyone on this thread? No I didn’t in my post.

Did I say anyone who wants immigration controls is a racist. No I didn’t.

its you who I find posting on this thread in such a way that its not possible to have a debate.

Its you who answer other peoples posts in an aggressive and dismissive manner.

Its you who attacks anyone who might not support your world view.

And btw I notice you have decided to speak on behalf of all posters on this thread. Speak for yourself.
 
I've never read that. But I will look it out.
If I can offer by return: Assef Bayat, Workers and Revolution in Iran. It's brilliant on the way the Ayatollahs took over the factories and destroyed the workers' movement.

Robert Dreyfuss's "Devil's Game" is a good read on US collusion with Islamism and interference in Middle Eastern governments and governance.
 
Marx noted that the term which Islam itself employs to describe relations between Muslims and all non-Muslims is “harb”. “Harb” is the Arabic word for “War”. Islam defines its own community and nation as Dar el Islam (the Abode of Islam). It defines all non-Muslims and their territories as Dar el Harb (the Place of War).

Marx noted that Islam defines the state of hostility between Muslims and non-Muslims as permanent. (This hostility may be suspended by treaty – so as to permit non-violent relations. But such a suspension is only ever temporary and contingent. It does not, and cannot, remove the fundamental state of hostility that exists permanently between Dar el Islam and Dar el Harb, the state of war that exists between Muslims and non-believers.)

Marx cited particularly the Barbary pirates who had for long attacked Christian shipping and raided Christian coastal villages. He said that, although they were basically just pirates, within the framework of Islamic law, the corsair ships were “the holy fleet of Islam”.

Marx did so in order to explain that almost any act of hostility by Muslims against non-Muslims (saving those with whom there has been agreed a treaty to suspend hostilities) is, in Islamic law, legitimate, virtuous, and even holy.

Do you agree with Marx’s analysis? Can we use it as a point of departure to analyse events in Cologne?

But would you say that the perpetrators in Cologne and other cities were as well versed in Islamic law as you seem to be, and were practising "Dar el Islam" or just an out of control bunch of thugs thinking they could get away with rape and assault?
 
[QUOTE="frogwoman, post: 14316809, member: 251"]So if a drunk driver hit a Muslim or a Jew on Christmas Day would it be sanctioned by Christianity? The fact of it being in a Christian country where alcohol is permitted would certainly go some way to explain why it happened, because alcohol is a traditional part of these celebrations and originally had a religiously sanctioned use. But you could not just open the Bible for an explanation of why it happened :facepalm:[/QUOTE]

Was that Moses roaring about in his Triumph?
Ok, I'll get me coat.
 
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