How will you vote if you want neither FPTP nor AV

[Lord Camomile]

Sneaky bastards...

 

[boing!]

They didn't campaign vigorously for it - they first insured themselves against a YES vote by fiddling the boundaries then did what they were expected to. Nothing else. What other options did they have? Their gamble is that the lib-dems are tied to them no matter what the outcome.

I guess that makes sense. I'm still not convinced it will have any real effect, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Streathamite]

It was messing up the cuts agenda that was by far and away the biggest issue for me.

But it was also the realisation that AV is just the same as FPTP but with a slight rearrangement of seats. I want big changes and I see PR as a pathway to these changes -- it became clear to me that voting for AV would remove the chance of PR for the rest of my life.

There were other issues. Arguing with a8 made me put all my thoughts into a coherent and consistent* order. And doing that hardened my line, made me realise what was really important here.

That's a beautiful irony underneath this, of course -- the man employed by the ERS to argue in favour of AV was actually instrumental in leading to me arguing against it to others.


*at least as much as is allowed by Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. One for maths fans, there.

This is more or less my thinking too - and I think A8 had that effect on a lot of people!

 

[big eejit]

baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/04/21/baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky/

 

[magneze]

baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/04/21/baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky/

Jesus.

Maybe I will just scrawl "FUCK YOU ALL YOU LYING SHITBAGS" on my ballot after all.

 

[BigTom]

baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/04/21/baroness-warsi-humiliated-in-no2av-debate-on-sky/

That's hilarious. Adam Boulton is a knob iirc, but he's great there, I love how he just takes her to pieces on everything.

 

[killer b]

Why do they bother wheeling warsi out? She's always a disaster... It's almost like they don't want to win.

 

[Streathamite]

We don't have AV for Holyrood elections; we have a version of what the Jenkins Commission subsequently recommended for Westminster.

Isn't it AMS you have?

 

[danny la rouge]

Isn't it AMS you have?

It's a two vote system, with proportional top ups based on party lists. So it is one type of AMS, but not the only type. AV Plus, the Jenkins favoured system, would be similar, with the constituency vote being AV, with a top up list. For Holyrood, we have that, only the constituency vote isn't AV. (Technically speaking, the second vote is counted using the D'Hondt method).

I personally don't like party list systems.

 

[Wolfie Smith]

That's hilarious. Adam Boulton is a knob iirc, but he's great there, I love how he just takes her to pieces on everything.

Jesus I'm one of the few Yes left now but I still felt smashing his smug looking face in - and wish he'd questioned her assertion that under FPTP all voters have an equal say when clearly that is flippping far from the case.

 

[ernestolynch]

a better idea; vote 'no' to really fuck nick clegg up

This is what the vote is about.

 

[Streathamite]

This is what the vote is about.

for me it sure as hell is, as for anyone else - god only knows

 

[Random]

Newbie was wondering on one of these AV threads what option a pro-PR person should take. After thinking about it for a bit I reckon the best result for PR would be a Yes, but with a very very low turnout. It would discredit both systems imo. Of course, how one should vote in that case is still a bit of a mystery. Abstain, I suppose.

I'm not pro-PR myself, though.

 

[Santino]

Newbie was wondering on one of these AV threads what option a pro-PR person should take. After thinking about it for a bit I reckon the best result for PR would be a Yes, but with a very very low turnout. It would discredit both systems imo. Of course, how one should vote in that case is still a bit of a mystery. Abstain, I suppose.

I'm not pro-PR myself, though.

There is no result, YES or NO, with whatever level of participation, that makes PR look like a popular system. That's one reason why the Tories offered it to Clegg, and one reason why they're not overly bothered by the outcome. Clegg's put PR off the table more effectively than he possibly could have done if he really was a Tory sleeper agent.

 

[Random]

There is no result, YES or NO, with whatever level of participation, that makes PR look like a popular system. That's one reason why the Tories offered it to Clegg, and one reason why they're not overly bothered by the outcome. Clegg's put PR off the table more effectively than he possibly could have done if he really was a Tory sleeper agent.

Yes indeed, but out of the proffered options i meant

 

[Corax]

I want a system where our representatives are selected on the basis of how many 'likes' they get on facebook. So I'll be voting No.

 

[moochedit]

I want a system where our representatives are selected on the basis of how many 'likes' they get on facebook. So I'll be voting No.

you sure about that ?

http://www.facebook.com/labourparty?v=wal

http://www.facebook.com/conservatives

http://www.facebook.com/libdems?v=wall

http://www.facebook.com/NO2AV

http://www.facebook.com/YestoFairerVotes

 

[Corax]

you sure about that ?

http://www.facebook.com/labourparty?v=wal

http://www.facebook.com/conservatives

http://www.facebook.com/libdems?v=wall

None of them would get in. According to the latest info on PageData our government would be formed of:


Eminem
Lady Gaga
Rihanna
Peter Griffin
Shakira
Justin Bieber
Eric Cartman
Homer Simpson
Megan Fox
Katy Perry
Lil Wayne
Bob Marley
Vin Diesel
Harry Potter
Dr Gregory House
SpongeBob SquarePants


I see that as a massive improvement.

 

[moochedit]

None of them would get in. According to the latest info on PageData our government would be formed of:


Eminem
Lady Gaga
Rihanna
Peter Griffin
Shakira
Justin Bieber
Eric Cartman
Homer Simpson
Megan Fox
Katy Perry
Lil Wayne
Bob Marley
Vin Diesel
Harry Potter
Dr Gregory House
SpongeBob SquarePants


I see that as a massive improvement.

fair enough. you've sold it to me

 

[wtfftw]

I'd vote for shakira.

 

[moochedit]

i'd vote for eric cartman

 

[Corax]

House would get the health job obviously.
Vin Diesel would get defence.
Simpson for the Homer Office (sorry), and Spongebob in charge of foreign policy.

 

[Lord Camomile]

New poll?

 

[moochedit]

nah.. should be a coalition of cartman, beavis and butthead and stewie and quagmire from family guy.

 

[moochedit]

New poll?

go on then

 

[Lord Camomile]

Too many options (16) - you're only allowed 12 on here.

Plus there's no way to use PR on these polls

 

[Streathamite]

There is no result, YES or NO, with whatever level of participation, that makes PR look like a popular system.

Eh? can I assume you mean AV here?

 

[danny la rouge]

Too many options (16) - you're only allowed 12 on here.

Plus there's no way to use PR on these polls

You could use AV by using multichoice.

 

[danny la rouge]

Eh? can I assume you mean AV here?

Timing!

 

[Lord Camomile]

You could use AV by using multichoice.

Ah, but you wouldn't be able to rank them, which is of course the key component of AV