How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Zabo]

"Panorama investigates sensational allegations of historical child abuse and murder by some of the most prominent people in Britain: a paedophile ring at the heart of the Establishment. Why were the allegations described by police as "credible and true" with no hard evidence or corroboration? What role have senior politicians and the media played in promoting this story around the world? And what price will genuine victims of child abuse pay if it turns out not to be true?"

BBC One - Panorama, The VIP Paedophile Ring: What's the Truth?

 

[DotCommunist]

every bit of these reactions will fuel the 'hysteria' narrative for years to come and be cited as hard fact by journos during the ever-delayed inquiry

 

[Lurdan]

BBC 6.00pm news report that the Met have issued an apology to Brittan's widow and said that the rape allegations against him would not have led to further action.

The BBC also report one element of tonight's Panorama :

VIP paedophile inquiry: Lord Brittan claims unreliable - 'victim' - BBC

A vulnerable man who made sex abuse allegations against VIPs has told the BBC he may have been led into making the claims by campaigners.

The man told Panorama he had provided VIP names including that of ex-Home Secretary Leon Brittan, "as a joke suggestion to start with", which had later been repeated in earnest.

His account was the basis of news reports about the late Lord Brittan.

(...)

Panorama understands that David told the Metropolitan Police he was worried that two well-known campaigners may have led him into making false claims.

The Mail runs a story about David Mellor calling for an investigation by an outside Police force into 'false' allegations and underneath it ask DID BBC 'BURY' PANORAMA'S PAEDOPHILE EXPOSE? - bury in this context meaning 'put it on at 10.35 at night'.

Police must probe false claims of abuse by senior Conservatives and Establishment figures, says David Mellor - Mail

The Sun runs a long attack piece about "Darren" in which they claim he told them he had been offered asylum in North Korea.

Kim off it - Sun

Exaro report that a Senior MPS Detective is being investigated following a complaint that he

is suspected of improperly disclosing to journalists the name, address and other details of a complainant

Met investigates Panorama source over leak of CSA survivor’s ID - Exaro

The artfully worded Exaro story links this to tonights Panorama, which they have been attacking for some time, because he is also allegedly a 'confidential source' for the programme. (It is perhaps unnecessary to point out that Exaro have themselves been criticized for putting the security and well-being of "Darren", "Nick" and others second to their commercial interest in exploiting this story).

Following the Times story about "Darren" falling out with them, Exaro posted a series of tweets quoting directly from communications they had received from him while themselves undermining him to which he replied

As an interesting example of their commitment to journalistic standards, on the same page Exaro report that Daniel Foggo the journalist presenting this edition of Panorama

(...) lived – throughout his childhood – over the road from Sir Peter Morrison, one of the best-known politicians who is alleged to have been a paedophile (...)

Drawing attention to the fact that Fiona Woolf was a neighbour of Leon Brittan they then ask Foggo if he will be declaring the fact he was a 'neighbour' of Morrison's as a child on Panorama. It is hard to see this as anything other than a singularly unpleasant smear operating at more than one level.

(There is some hostile commentary on Exaro's Panorama stories at the 'Bartholomew's Notes on Religion' blog).

 

[elbows]

every bit of these reactions will fuel the 'hysteria' narrative for years to come and be cited as hard fact by journos during the ever-delayed inquiry

No, the inquiry is so broad that the shit 'hysteria' narrative is unlikely to dominate it. For example since its about institutions failing in their duty to protect children, it's remit includes territory occupied by Savile's offences, and there is no appetite to write his crimes off as hysterical fantasy.

If there are moments where certain particular high-profile cases are being looked at by the inquiry then perhaps we'll get the sort of thing I think you are alluding to, but its only going to be a part of a much longer story. There is going to be so much stuff that falls well below the 'VIP sizzle' level that leads to these sorts of media games.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

From Exaro's Twitter:


Implying that a struggling news outlet is turning to half-baked and salacious reporting to make a splash? Who does that remind me of?

 

[elbows]

Thats very depressing.

I finally got round to reading the July 9th opening statement of the inquiry. It's not too bad, I quite like the modular approach and the plan to report regularly.

Given that as I read it the increasingly shit Exaro-Darren-Nick-OtherMedia stuff loomed large in my mind, I was struck by this sentiment which was expressed at some point in the inquiry opening statement:

While it would obviously be of assistance to the Inquiry to hear as much direct oral evidence from victims and survivors as possible, they must never be made to carry the weight of proving anything.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/sites/default/files/inquiry-opening-statement.pdf

 

[brogdale]

Brittan's mate Gummer went on R4 "Today" programme this am to lay into investigations into his old pals. His claims that allegations against Brittan & others (including Heath) were "false", "nonsense" and that the "investigations had been dropped" went completely unchallenged in the interview.

 

[gosub]

Agree with you, but if they follow up Heath (Establishment rotten to the core! shock! horror!), with a couple of high profile patsies, that are provably innocent, it'll be Witch hunt! let sleeping dogs lie! blah, blah,in no time

Why a deserved downfall beckons for Tom Watson | Nick Cohen
I can't remember who on here informed me they had relaxed the official secrets act in order to gain evidence on this matter, but have there been many cases come out of this from inside the basic 30 year d-notice period? Taking the statistical rate of paedophilia to be say 0.5%

 

[elbows]

Why a deserved downfall beckons for Tom Watson | Nick Cohen
I can't remember who on here informed me they had relaxed the official secrets act in order to gain evidence on this matter, but have there been many cases come out of this from inside the basic 30 year d-notice period? Taking the statistical rate of paedophilia to be say 0.5%

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking for but unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick it is way too early to answer that question.

For example the attorney generals confirmation that people won't face Official Secrets act problems applies to the inquiry into child sex abuse, an inquiry that is only just getting started and will run for years.

Here is the letter that confirms people giving evidence won't get into trouble:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/sites/default/files/attorney-general-letter.pdf

 

[laptop]

No idea what your question is, gosub

But that Cohen piece is an appalling sour-grapes attack on Watson because of his supporting Cohen's adversaries in an internal argument in the London commentariat. No more.

 

[gosub]

No idea what your question is, gosub

But that Cohen piece is an appalling sour-grapes attack on Watson because of his supporting Cohen's adversaries in an internal argument in the London commentariat. No more.

A few others attacking Watson as well, granted may well be his new job, but the its a witch hunt thing is starting....whilst the cases that have come out all seem to be 30 year+ old

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Watson has indeed taken a proper pasting, within a few weeks of being eletected deputy Labour leader.

Deputy to a guy who opposes Trident and NATO.

It is a function of intelligence agencies to destabilise politicians like Corbyn.

Such agencies have actively assisted the kid-fuckers, as MI5 did in waltzing off with the Cyril Smith files.

2 birds, 1 stone?

 

[gimesumtruf]

Perhaps the mods from here should be deputy leader because they warned, be careful who you accuse. Perhaps Watson is not as savvy as our mods, which would not surprise me in the least.
Victims, as ever in for the long wait?

 

[J Ed]

Amazing that we've got into the territory where it is now seen to be morally wrong to report child abuse, or at least that is the line that the entire media establishment seem to be desperate to push. I don't think it will be successful though, the connection between paedophilia and high ranking politicians is now too firmly entrenched.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Trial due to start next week. Wonder what other distractions can be created by state and institutions that are known to protect kid-fuckers.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/04/ca
meron-patrick-rock-tip-off

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Amazing that we've got into the territory where it is now seen to be morally wrong to report child abuse, or at least that is the line that the entire media establishment seem to be desperate to push. I don't think it will be successful though, the connection between paedophilia and high ranking politicians is now too firmly entrenched.

Indeed. Principles not personalities. There is no need to accuse a single individual of anything now. We have known for long enough that the establishment protects child-rapists and thus facilitates it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

 

[eoin_k]

Many years ago Paul Foot claimed that the rumour about Leon Britain abusing children had probably been manufactured by antisemitic spooks. It would be ironic if some people knew Watson to be barking up the wrong tree because they also knew the real source of these allegations.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Watson has indeed taken a proper pasting, within a few weeks of being eletected deputy Labour leader.

Deputy to a guy who opposes Trident and NATO.

It is a function of intelligence agencies to destabilise politicians like Corbyn.

Such agencies have actively assisted the kid-fuckers, as MI5 did in waltzing off with the Cyril Smith files.

2 birds, 1 stone?

Don't be naive. Intelligence agencies seek to destabilise, or gather material aimed at destabilising ALL politicians and people in public life, not just the likes of Corbyn.

 

[elbows]

Amazing that we've got into the territory where it is now seen to be morally wrong to report child abuse, or at least that is the line that the entire media establishment seem to be desperate to push. I don't think it will be successful though, the connection between paedophilia and high ranking politicians is now too firmly entrenched.

I think the line is more complicated than that. But yes, some of the media have been so shit about this that such detail might be lost. But I don't think they are quite pedalling the line that its morally wrong to report abuse.

Multiple victims coming forwards really helps make a case that won't get this sort of shit from the press. When that doesn't happen, but people have talked to the press, this sort of backlash is far more likely.

Party politics certainly seems to have set in motion one agenda. The fact Brittan was subject to a number of historical rumours back in the 80's probably winds some old Tories up, which is kind of understandable if it turns out that a case can't be made against him again now. This can be contrasted against the likes of Janner, who was also subject to rumours back in the day, with the key difference being that those ones showed signs of having more evidence pointing in that direction at the time, and sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution now.

And those who seek a law to stop the accused in sexual abuse cases being named are likely to use the 'dying man harassed in his last days' narrative to further that cause.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Many years ago Paul Foot claimed that the rumour about Leon Britain abusing children had probably been manufactured by antisemitic spooks. It would be ironic if some people knew Watson to be barking up the wrong tree because they also knew the real source of these allegations.

From what I recall, Paul Foot reached that conclusion because he could find no corroboration. Given the nature of the claims, that was hardly surprising. Given Foot's politics, seeing the state behind the claims is also hardly surprising.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Don't be naive. Intelligence agencies seek to destabilise, or gather material aimed at destabilising ALL politicians and people in public life, not just the likes of Corbyn.

Some more than others, clearly.

 

[elbows]

Tim Tate, the telegraph journalist who mostly came to the attention of this thread because he was on Exaros case earlier than most, in relation to stories about a historic press interview with a customers officer and what was actually recorded on tape, had a very interesting blog post recently. It cover a lot of Exaro mistakes, but also Panorama ones.

But Panorama’s worst offence concerned Brittan himself. It wheeled out testimony from former colleagues of the late politician to portray him as a man terribly and wrongly traduced as a paedophile.

Yet as Panorama knows (or should know) there is strong evidence to indicate that Brittan had a sexual interest in children. As I have reported elsewhere, tucked in the files of Operation Fairbank/Fernbridge is a formal 2014 statement from the ex-customs officer. This, of course, denounces Exaro’s bogus story about the 1982 videos and films; but it also contains the startling – and detailed – account of how at a later date the ex-customs officer stopped Brittan as he arrived at Dover. A search of Brittan’s car yielded a child pornography videotape which, even 30 years later, the contents of which the ex-customs officer was able to describe.

Unfortunately I'm having trouble finding any permalink to specific blog posts on his site, so you'll have to go to the following URL and then scroll down till you get to the story entitled 'THE LOUSE & THE FLEA: PANORAMA, EXARO & THE VIP PAEDOPHILE SAGA'.

Blog Archives - Tim Tate

 

[William of Walworth]

From October 7th :

David Hencke's take on that Panorama programme.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Many years ago Paul Foot claimed that the rumour about Leon Britain abusing children had probably been manufactured by antisemitic spooks. It would be ironic if some people knew Watson to be barking up the wrong tree because they also knew the real source of these allegations.

Even the idea that the abuse rumour could have been put about by spooks could be something put about by spooks. This stuff is a hall of mirrors, to the benefit of child-rapists of course.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Rebekah Brooks is out to get Tom Watson

 

[Kaka Tim]

I thought watson stuck to his guns very well in his response. Not sure Cameron is wise to pursue this as - whatever the facts of the case - it looks exactly like the establishment closing ranks to defend one of their own. And Brittain is not exactly "national treasure" material who people would prefer to believe the best of. It also runs a very real risk that if more solid evidence emerges about Brittain, Cameron and the rest of the tory huffers and puffers are exposed (again) as nonce protectors.
Maybe they are very sure of their ground - or maybe the arrogant pompous shitbags just cant help themselves.

 

[elbows]

Ha ha:

A letter by MP Tom Watson demanding Lord Brittan be interviewed about a rape allegation was only passed to police after the former home secretary was questioned, prosecutors say.

The letter was received by the CPS in late April and passed to the police in June. However the interview with Lord Brittan had already taken place in May.

The CPS has released a statement saying it did not ask the police to reopen the investigation as a result of Mr Watson's letter.

It said it had forwarded Mr Watson's letter to the Metropolitan Police, saying this was normal practice, and that Lord Brittan had already been interviewed by the Met by the time it received the letter.

Tom Watson's Leon Brittan letter received after police interview - BBC News

 

[elbows]

And now they've found another angle:

Police dismissed Tom Watson's 2012 abuse claims within two months - BBC News

Claims by Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson of a link between a paedophile group and a current government minister were dismissed by police within two months, the BBC has learnt.

Panorama has obtained police emails sent shortly after Mr Watson's statement to the Commons in 2012.

They concluded that there was no evidence the minister was guilty of any criminal complicity.

 

[quiquaquo]

Submissions to Theresa May's child sex abuse inquiry accidentally deleted
http://www.theguardian.com/profile/rajeev-syal
"Information provided by alleged child abuse victims to the overarching inquiry set up by Theresa May has been deleted due to a blunder, it has emerged."