Concrete Meadow
ars longa vita brevis
Here's an image I just received from Hong Kong -
Yes, now what?
Yes, now what?
Hong Kong: China's Last Words?
- Thread starter Concrete Meadow
- Start date
Concrete Meadow
ars longa vita brevis
Can't find a decent sized piccy.
Was a relly good event as usual.
Sombre; solemn; anger still too.
A real sense of comradeship.
Never forget!
Woof
(Edit to add a wee C&P from today's Sunday Morning Post.)
..........................................
Sunday, June 5, 2005
Tiananmen crusaders adopt a new rallying cry
KLAUDIA LEE
Victoria Park was packed last night with people calling for the vindication of the Tiananmen Square protesters - and demanding the release of Hong Kong journalist Ching Cheong.
Waving candles and singing, they spread across five soccer pitches chanting: "Vindication of June 4", "Learn from history", "End one-party dictatorship" and "Release Ching Cheong".
Ching is being held on the mainland on spying charges.
Hours before the estimated 45,000-strong crowd had gathered, Donald Tsang Yam-kuen admitted that he too had shared the emotions felt in Hong Kong 16 years ago when the student protest was crushed. But he said things had changed.
"I have seen our country's impressive economic and social development," he told a radio programme. "These have given me a more objective comparison and my feelings have become calmer."
He urged people to be more "rational and objective".
In response, Catholic leader Bishop Joseph Zen Ze-kiun said: "Even though our feelings may be different at different times, the truth is unchanged. I am more and more confident that it [the crackdown] was a big mistake."
Attendance was back to normal after last year's record 80,000 turnout on the 15th anniversary, but police put the figure at 22,000.
Housewife Helen Wong Hung-tsing, 40, said she would return every year until there was a reassessment of the crackdown. "It's our history, we can't forget it."
Yu Kwai-gin, 72, said: "The Chinese government always criticises Japan for erasing history, but
Was a relly good event as usual.
Sombre; solemn; anger still too.
A real sense of comradeship.
Never forget!
Woof
(Edit to add a wee C&P from today's Sunday Morning Post.)
..........................................
Sunday, June 5, 2005
Tiananmen crusaders adopt a new rallying cry
KLAUDIA LEE
Victoria Park was packed last night with people calling for the vindication of the Tiananmen Square protesters - and demanding the release of Hong Kong journalist Ching Cheong.
Waving candles and singing, they spread across five soccer pitches chanting: "Vindication of June 4", "Learn from history", "End one-party dictatorship" and "Release Ching Cheong".
Ching is being held on the mainland on spying charges.
Hours before the estimated 45,000-strong crowd had gathered, Donald Tsang Yam-kuen admitted that he too had shared the emotions felt in Hong Kong 16 years ago when the student protest was crushed. But he said things had changed.
"I have seen our country's impressive economic and social development," he told a radio programme. "These have given me a more objective comparison and my feelings have become calmer."
He urged people to be more "rational and objective".
In response, Catholic leader Bishop Joseph Zen Ze-kiun said: "Even though our feelings may be different at different times, the truth is unchanged. I am more and more confident that it [the crackdown] was a big mistake."
Attendance was back to normal after last year's record 80,000 turnout on the 15th anniversary, but police put the figure at 22,000.
Housewife Helen Wong Hung-tsing, 40, said she would return every year until there was a reassessment of the crackdown. "It's our history, we can't forget it."
Yu Kwai-gin, 72, said: "The Chinese government always criticises Japan for erasing history, but
chinchilla
New Member
How was it Jessie? any problems with the Pro Patriots march held at the same time?
Concrete Meadow
ars longa vita brevis
*heard the bump*
Hey Jessie!
How goes it? So ... Li Ao the Taiwan writer is currently kicking up a big fuss in Beijing (webcast of his 9/20 lecture at Beijing University was banned, no?) ... Cheung Mo and fellow LegCo members arrived in China yesterday ... so much news, not enough time.
Me? Working hard in my art research; commuting between NYC and Europe.
It's good to read your posts here. I depend on news from you and fellow Hongkonger!
Cheers,
Meadow
Hey Jessie!
How goes it? So ... Li Ao the Taiwan writer is currently kicking up a big fuss in Beijing (webcast of his 9/20 lecture at Beijing University was banned, no?) ... Cheung Mo and fellow LegCo members arrived in China yesterday ... so much news, not enough time.
Me? Working hard in my art research; commuting between NYC and Europe.
It's good to read your posts here. I depend on news from you and fellow Hongkonger!
Cheers,
Meadow
chinchilla
New Member
Hey JD, as mentioned yesterday here is the blog with the historical snippets about Hong Kong and Macau
http://www.blogthetalk.com/
http://www.blogthetalk.com/
Concrete Meadow
ars longa vita brevis
Hong Kong welcomes back a familiar face
Chris Patten savoring an egg tart ...
Hope all is well Jessie
Chris Patten savoring an egg tart ...
Hope all is well Jessie
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I only pass by urban 75 ever now and then and just caught up with this one. I read the orginal china thread and just wanted to say how much enjoyed reading them all.
Out of intrest where do you go kayaking in Hong Kong?
Out of intrest where do you go kayaking in Hong Kong?
Global_Stoner said:
Usually either up on Three Fathom's Cove (in Sai Kung, New Territories,) or, more often, down at Stanley Bay on the south side of HK Island.
Mountains and sea, mountains and sea.
I'm off to Stanley paddling this Sunday as it happens. A couple of hours out in the Bay on the edge of the South China Sea and then a couple of beers at the Smugglers Inn before off home for TV and bed.
Bliss!
Woof
Given the title of this thread, how apposite is today's "Ming" in the SCMP?
HEY PEEPS!!!
Keep an eye open for news about HK tomorrow (Sunday 4th Dec).
Not only have Beijing, and our own government, conspired, yet again, to block any concrete steps forward in Hong Kong's democratic development in 2007/08, they are now refusing to even discuss a timetable for the development of universal sufferage in Hong Kong.
We, the people of Hong Kong, demand the right to participate in the free, fair and democratic election of our leaders. This right is provided for and guaranteed under the Basic Law (HK's mini-constitution).
Starting at 3:00pm on Sunday December the 4th, we, the people, will march from Victoria Park in Causeway Bay to the Government Offices in Central Hong Kong.
We will wear black.
We will be peaceful and orderly.
And we WILL be counted!
Woof
HEY PEEPS!!!
Keep an eye open for news about HK tomorrow (Sunday 4th Dec).
Not only have Beijing, and our own government, conspired, yet again, to block any concrete steps forward in Hong Kong's democratic development in 2007/08, they are now refusing to even discuss a timetable for the development of universal sufferage in Hong Kong.
We, the people of Hong Kong, demand the right to participate in the free, fair and democratic election of our leaders. This right is provided for and guaranteed under the Basic Law (HK's mini-constitution).
Starting at 3:00pm on Sunday December the 4th, we, the people, will march from Victoria Park in Causeway Bay to the Government Offices in Central Hong Kong.
We will wear black.
We will be peaceful and orderly.
And we WILL be counted!
Woof
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Good Luck mate. Lets hope it reaches headlines outside of HK. My mates are of on the climate change march in London and although I gently mocked them it this makes me realise how much we sometimes take some things for granted.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
go jessie and friends, hope you have many many peeps out with you today and it all goes ok.
fs
fs
At least 200,000 Hong Kong People marched yesterday in a clear show of solidarity. We want democracy!
The streets were completely overrun. Traffic and trams came to a standstill. The pavements on both sides were packed with crowds cheering us on. Every overhead footbridge was jammed with supporters waving flags and banners.
We wore black. The mood was serious.
The first peeps left Victoria Park at 3:00pm to walk the six kilometres to the Government Offices in Central. People were still arriving at the park at 6:00pm and queing up to start the march. The last people left the park at about 6:45pm and reached Central at about 8:00pm.
I am so utterly filled with pride to be a part of this movement - to be one of these people. Once again, there were no arrests, no violence, not a single incident, no property damage. It is a privilege to be involved in this cause with these people.
We are the people.
And yet they say we are not mature enough to elect our own leaders.
Fuck 'em!
Woof
The streets were completely overrun. Traffic and trams came to a standstill. The pavements on both sides were packed with crowds cheering us on. Every overhead footbridge was jammed with supporters waving flags and banners.
We wore black. The mood was serious.
The first peeps left Victoria Park at 3:00pm to walk the six kilometres to the Government Offices in Central. People were still arriving at the park at 6:00pm and queing up to start the march. The last people left the park at about 6:45pm and reached Central at about 8:00pm.
I am so utterly filled with pride to be a part of this movement - to be one of these people. Once again, there were no arrests, no violence, not a single incident, no property damage. It is a privilege to be involved in this cause with these people.
We are the people.
And yet they say we are not mature enough to elect our own leaders.
Fuck 'em!
Woof
Concrete Meadow
ars longa vita brevis
We ARE the People! (As stated on the large black and white banner ...)
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...5_12_04t053857_321x450_us_hongkong_march.jpg?
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...5_12_04t053938_450x315_us_hongkong_march.jpg?
And how nice to see [former Hong Kong Chief Secretary] Anson Chan again! She arrived to join the protest demanding the universal suffrage in Hong Kong December 4, 2005.
This is also the first time the former chief secretary took part in a protest march. Tens of thousands marched in Hong Kong on Sunday for the right to directly elect their political leaders and to protest against a package of electoral reforms pushed by the city's chief executive and Beijing.
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...2_05t074814_297x450_us_hongkong_democracy.jpg
Don't despair, Jessie ...
From NYC and in spirit with you and fellow Hongkongers.
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...5_12_04t053857_321x450_us_hongkong_march.jpg?
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...5_12_04t053938_450x315_us_hongkong_march.jpg?
And how nice to see [former Hong Kong Chief Secretary] Anson Chan again! She arrived to join the protest demanding the universal suffrage in Hong Kong December 4, 2005.
This is also the first time the former chief secretary took part in a protest march. Tens of thousands marched in Hong Kong on Sunday for the right to directly elect their political leaders and to protest against a package of electoral reforms pushed by the city's chief executive and Beijing.
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg...2_05t074814_297x450_us_hongkong_democracy.jpg
Don't despair, Jessie ...
From NYC and in spirit with you and fellow Hongkongers.
Thanks Meadow.
Tens of thousands is a bit of an underestimation IMO, but nevertheless, I was looking for that piccie, so thanks again.
It was fantastic to see Anson there......and Christine Loh (and boyfriend Craig Erlich,) and, of course, Cheung Mo, Michael Mak, Martin Lee, CK Lee, Lee Wing Tat, Yeung Sum, Albert "Taipan" Cheng, the "Article 45" barristers (Audry Eu, Alan Leong, Ronny Tong and Margaret Ng,) and the rest of the gang.
(BTW Meadow, the Article 45 concern group have just formed themselves into a political party - I've decided to join. It'll be the first time in my life that I'm actually a member of a formal political party
.)
We ARE the people.
Nope. Image doesn't work. Click on Meadow's third link for the best shot of the days march.
Woof
Tens of thousands is a bit of an underestimation IMO, but nevertheless, I was looking for that piccie, so thanks again.
It was fantastic to see Anson there......and Christine Loh (and boyfriend Craig Erlich,) and, of course, Cheung Mo, Michael Mak, Martin Lee, CK Lee, Lee Wing Tat, Yeung Sum, Albert "Taipan" Cheng, the "Article 45" barristers (Audry Eu, Alan Leong, Ronny Tong and Margaret Ng,) and the rest of the gang.
(BTW Meadow, the Article 45 concern group have just formed themselves into a political party - I've decided to join. It'll be the first time in my life that I'm actually a member of a formal political party
.)We ARE the people.
Nope. Image doesn't work. Click on Meadow's third link for the best shot of the days march.
Woof
FruitandNut
New Member
Having thoroughly enjoyed my stay of 3.5 years in Hong Kong as a child (1955-58), I have followed with interest it's nervous steps towards 'reunification' with China. I feel a concern that 'Big Brother' may move too hard on stifling democracy instead of learning from Hong Kong's example that it is through liberalising society that a more contented and worthwhile life may be has for it's people.
What China should be doing is seeking to be better than the British colonists NOT worse!
ps. What the hell were the planners and architects on when they messed up Repulse Bay? It was a pleasant spot for sunbathing and swimming, there was the old style hotel on the edge of the sand (where British and Japanese troops had contested every corridor and room), that millionaire's mansion that had never been completed (a fortune teller had told him that he would die if it was finished), and most of the other buildings seemed 'sympathetic' with their surroundings. Likewise with the Stanley Village and Fort Stanley areas, and just whan the heck has been going on in Little Sai Wan - did they shoot all the architects and let the inmates of a maximum security asylum loose on the planning and design!
What China should be doing is seeking to be better than the British colonists NOT worse!
ps. What the hell were the planners and architects on when they messed up Repulse Bay? It was a pleasant spot for sunbathing and swimming, there was the old style hotel on the edge of the sand (where British and Japanese troops had contested every corridor and room), that millionaire's mansion that had never been completed (a fortune teller had told him that he would die if it was finished), and most of the other buildings seemed 'sympathetic' with their surroundings. Likewise with the Stanley Village and Fort Stanley areas, and just whan the heck has been going on in Little Sai Wan - did they shoot all the architects and let the inmates of a maximum security asylum loose on the planning and design!
FruitandNut said:
I actually responded to your post in the Travel forum if you want to take a peek.
But the simple answer is "money". And anyway, you can hardley expect a thriving place like HK to be frozen in time in the 1950's. There are still many, many beautil places in HK. 43% of our land area is designated country park.
Woof
Harry today (SCMP) makes reference to the police using pepper spray on Korean farmers here during the TO ministerial meeting.
The cartoon depicts legislator "Long Hair" harranging (Chief Executive) Donald Tsang and his cabinet when they took to the streets yesterday to try and drum up public support for the (limited and crappy) political reforms that LegCo is threatening to vote down.
Hehehehehe!
Woof
The cartoon depicts legislator "Long Hair" harranging (Chief Executive) Donald Tsang and his cabinet when they took to the streets yesterday to try and drum up public support for the (limited and crappy) political reforms that LegCo is threatening to vote down.
Hehehehehe!
Woof
WoooooHoooooo!
It's all kicking off a bit down in Wanchai and Causeway Bay.
A couple of thousand angry Korean farmers trying to force their way down to the Convention Centre where the WTO ministerial meeting is being held. And a couple of thousand police doing their damndest to stop them.
Might get a wee bit nasty tomorrow methinks - the last day of the meeting.
Woof
It's all kicking off a bit down in Wanchai and Causeway Bay.
A couple of thousand angry Korean farmers trying to force their way down to the Convention Centre where the WTO ministerial meeting is being held. And a couple of thousand police doing their damndest to stop them.
Might get a wee bit nasty tomorrow methinks - the last day of the meeting.
Woof
Back on topic.........
Today, the HK govt. will submit to LegCo (our parliament) the Constitutional Reform Paper for reading, debate and voting.
Our govt. says that this reform package marks a great step forward towards democracy.
You be the judge........
Currently, the Chief Executive is selected by a committee of 800 people who are selected by a group of 160,000 people who are stacked with pro-Beijing, pro-HK Govt and pro-business supporters - very few of whom are elected by our electorate of some 3.5 million registered voters (people have to actively register here before they can vote), many are hand picked by Beijing.
The proposed package is to double the size of the election committee to 1,600 - but still ensure that it remains stacked with lackeys so that Beijing can be sure of the outcome.
Currently we have a bicameral LegCo. Of 60 seats, thirty are returned by universal suffrage (3.5 million people) and the other 30 returned by so-called "functional constituencies" (remember the old "Rotten Boroughs" in the UK?). The functional constituencies comprise largely of business interests, pro-HK govt. groups, pro-Beijing groups and a smattering of professional and sector (such as education and social worker) groups.
Some FC's are so narrowly based that as few as 160 people (in some of the industrial groups) can elect a Legislator. Some individuals, due to their business associations across various industries and vast number of directorships get to vote for as many as 10 seats - and effectively control many of those). It is important to remember that the business sector in HK is very pro-HK govt. and even more pro-Beijing - why risk money by pissing off the commies, eh?
For the 30 directly elected (geographical) seats each seat takes, on average over 100,000 votes to secure. These seats usually split fairly evenly between the democratic camp and the DABPHK (The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong - Yup! You guessed it, the defacto Chinese Communist Party in HK). The DABPHK usually capture the elderly vote and some of the working class - they have huge resources both human and financial, being massively financed by the CCP. They give away loads of free rice all the time and bus people in to vote at each election (armies of geriatric, octogenarians; grannies and granddads who barely know what they are doing, being bussed in to vote for the name that they are given on a piece of paper to remind them before they enter the booth - you get the picture).
Worse, for any bill to pass there needs to be an overall majority in LegCo (60 seats) BUT ALSO a majority within each of the two 30-seat chambers (functional and directly elected). This means that the functionals' have an effective veto on any bill, even if there is an overall majority.
Overall, the pan-democrats (including independents,) control about 18 of the 30 directly elected seats and seven of the 30 functional seats. That's 25 out of 60.
To say the least, the system is STACKED in the Beijing/HK governments' favour.
The govts proposal for LegCo, is to add five new seats to each chamber (five directly elected and five functional). For the five new functional seats, however, it is proposed that all members of the district councils will elect them. The district councils comprise @ 500 members in all, of which @ 380 are directly elected and 120 appointed by the HK govt. Of the 500, probably about 60% are pro-govt and 40% pro democracy.
The new LegCo will thus comprise 70 seats, 35 directly elected and 35 functional.
All in all, perhaps a wee bit more democratic 'cos the new functional seats have an element of indirectly being voted for by universal suffrage (380 of the 500 district councillors). On the other hand, any expansion of the functional constituencies could be seen as a backwards step. Why not just replace five or 10 of the existing FC's with five or 10 new directly elected seats?
Anyhooooooooooo...........
The Lego debate starts today and, since this is a constitutional matter, the govt. needs a two-thirds majority, that is: 40 votes out of 60. After a marathon debate, the vote is expected some time tomorrow afternoon/evening.
A few "democratic" independents are wavering and right now it looks like the govt. have 38 votes (they need 40). The remaining 22 pan-democrats are solid and promising to vote down the bill.
The govt. is desperate to get this bill passed. Even the Chief Executive (Donald Tsang) has been out on the street with a megaphone lobbying public support and taking out TV adverts to try and sway public opinion (IMO, the fucking twat should rather be up in Beijing lobbying for more democracy for the people he supposedly represents, but anyway, I digress........). His argument is that this is the best possible deal and if it's voted down then the arrangements for the 2007/8 elections will remain as is (800 electing the CE and the same 60 seats in LegCo,) and the democrats themselves will have thwarted the forward movement of democracy. If he loses this vote, Beijing will be very pissed off with him.
The democrats argue that this package is an insult and a slap in the face to the many, many hundreds of thousands of HK people who have repeatedly taken peacefully to the streets demanding universal suffrage ASAP - or at least a roadmap and timetable towards universal suffrage (Beijing refuses to even discuss a timetable). They say that it makes little if any progress towards democracy and must be voted down until we have a roadmap and timetable in place for full democracy, preferably universal suffrage in 2012, or at least 2017 at the latest. If the bill is voted down, Beijing will be very pissed off with the democrats.
So, should the bill pass or should it be voted down?
What say you, ho? (Poll on new thread.)
Woof
Today, the HK govt. will submit to LegCo (our parliament) the Constitutional Reform Paper for reading, debate and voting.
Our govt. says that this reform package marks a great step forward towards democracy.
You be the judge........
Currently, the Chief Executive is selected by a committee of 800 people who are selected by a group of 160,000 people who are stacked with pro-Beijing, pro-HK Govt and pro-business supporters - very few of whom are elected by our electorate of some 3.5 million registered voters (people have to actively register here before they can vote), many are hand picked by Beijing.
The proposed package is to double the size of the election committee to 1,600 - but still ensure that it remains stacked with lackeys so that Beijing can be sure of the outcome.
Currently we have a bicameral LegCo. Of 60 seats, thirty are returned by universal suffrage (3.5 million people) and the other 30 returned by so-called "functional constituencies" (remember the old "Rotten Boroughs" in the UK?). The functional constituencies comprise largely of business interests, pro-HK govt. groups, pro-Beijing groups and a smattering of professional and sector (such as education and social worker) groups.
Some FC's are so narrowly based that as few as 160 people (in some of the industrial groups) can elect a Legislator. Some individuals, due to their business associations across various industries and vast number of directorships get to vote for as many as 10 seats - and effectively control many of those). It is important to remember that the business sector in HK is very pro-HK govt. and even more pro-Beijing - why risk money by pissing off the commies, eh?
For the 30 directly elected (geographical) seats each seat takes, on average over 100,000 votes to secure. These seats usually split fairly evenly between the democratic camp and the DABPHK (The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong - Yup! You guessed it, the defacto Chinese Communist Party in HK). The DABPHK usually capture the elderly vote and some of the working class - they have huge resources both human and financial, being massively financed by the CCP. They give away loads of free rice all the time and bus people in to vote at each election (armies of geriatric, octogenarians; grannies and granddads who barely know what they are doing, being bussed in to vote for the name that they are given on a piece of paper to remind them before they enter the booth - you get the picture).
Worse, for any bill to pass there needs to be an overall majority in LegCo (60 seats) BUT ALSO a majority within each of the two 30-seat chambers (functional and directly elected). This means that the functionals' have an effective veto on any bill, even if there is an overall majority.
Overall, the pan-democrats (including independents,) control about 18 of the 30 directly elected seats and seven of the 30 functional seats. That's 25 out of 60.
To say the least, the system is STACKED in the Beijing/HK governments' favour.
The govts proposal for LegCo, is to add five new seats to each chamber (five directly elected and five functional). For the five new functional seats, however, it is proposed that all members of the district councils will elect them. The district councils comprise @ 500 members in all, of which @ 380 are directly elected and 120 appointed by the HK govt. Of the 500, probably about 60% are pro-govt and 40% pro democracy.
The new LegCo will thus comprise 70 seats, 35 directly elected and 35 functional.
All in all, perhaps a wee bit more democratic 'cos the new functional seats have an element of indirectly being voted for by universal suffrage (380 of the 500 district councillors). On the other hand, any expansion of the functional constituencies could be seen as a backwards step. Why not just replace five or 10 of the existing FC's with five or 10 new directly elected seats?
Anyhooooooooooo...........
The Lego debate starts today and, since this is a constitutional matter, the govt. needs a two-thirds majority, that is: 40 votes out of 60. After a marathon debate, the vote is expected some time tomorrow afternoon/evening.
A few "democratic" independents are wavering and right now it looks like the govt. have 38 votes (they need 40). The remaining 22 pan-democrats are solid and promising to vote down the bill.
The govt. is desperate to get this bill passed. Even the Chief Executive (Donald Tsang) has been out on the street with a megaphone lobbying public support and taking out TV adverts to try and sway public opinion (IMO, the fucking twat should rather be up in Beijing lobbying for more democracy for the people he supposedly represents, but anyway, I digress........). His argument is that this is the best possible deal and if it's voted down then the arrangements for the 2007/8 elections will remain as is (800 electing the CE and the same 60 seats in LegCo,) and the democrats themselves will have thwarted the forward movement of democracy. If he loses this vote, Beijing will be very pissed off with him.
The democrats argue that this package is an insult and a slap in the face to the many, many hundreds of thousands of HK people who have repeatedly taken peacefully to the streets demanding universal suffrage ASAP - or at least a roadmap and timetable towards universal suffrage (Beijing refuses to even discuss a timetable). They say that it makes little if any progress towards democracy and must be voted down until we have a roadmap and timetable in place for full democracy, preferably universal suffrage in 2012, or at least 2017 at the latest. If the bill is voted down, Beijing will be very pissed off with the democrats.
So, should the bill pass or should it be voted down?
What say you, ho? (Poll on new thread.)
Woof
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