Hong Kong: China's Last Words?

[Jessiedog]

And finally for now........

Thomas!

'Tis mid September already.

I look forward to hearing from you to arrange a face-to-face over drinks in order to continue our discussions.

Blessings.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

So....

Jiang (yesterday) has handed over the chairmanship of the Central Military Commission to president Hu. If this is true, then it is the "true" power transfer. Control of the military was retained by both Mao and Deng until they died. The presidency is one thing, control of the military, obviously another.

CCTV (the CCP television mouthpiece,) is hailing this as the first peaceful transition of power in China (obviously Taiwan doesn't count as a part of China in this instance ).

So......

Either it's bollocks and just a bit of PR for the international community.

Or....

The (reported) power struggle between the Jiang and Hu camps has been won by Hu.

Or......

Hu has turned out to be fully in Jiangs camp after all and is trusted enough to be in full command, and to carry forward the "people's struggle", as per Jiang's wishes.

Or.......Something else, of course.

'Tis interesting tho'. The the fact that the (CCP controlled) media are tooting the horns over the issue and making much of the "peaceful transfer of power", would suggest that it has indeed (for whatever reason) been orchastrated by Jiang.

Apparantly "China watchers" and other analysts are scratching their heads.

As am I!

But my tail is twitching - something's afoot.



Woof

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Speaking of tails, Jessie

Perhaps one should give the pan-dems a break. As we know, in petland, it is easy to step on one's tails. Still, no excuse for Yeung Sum's boys ...

Btw did you get a kick out of Cheung Mo's debut appearance chez Tung?

I too wonder, what does this really mean? Does it go any further than NOT seeing Jiang in his swimming trunks?

Later.

- Meadow.

 

[bigfish]

Hong Kong elections reveal a marked political radicalisation

By Peter Symonds

The most significant aspect of the poll was not the overall outcome but a sharp dissatisfaction expressed by voters in the conservative wing of the “democrats”. The Democratic Party, which is dominated by well-off professionals and businessmen, actually lost seats—dropping from 11 to 9. Concerned that he may lose his seat, Martin Lee, a wealthy lawyer, ran a last minute “Save Martin Lee” campaign. Due to the quirks of the preferential voting system, Lee held his seat but the 10,000-vote surplus for his ticket cost ally Cyd Ho from the Frontier Party her seat.

The reasons for the alienation from the Democratic Party are not hard to find. The party represents sections of the ruling class in Hong Kong concerned at the impact of Beijing’s rule on the former British colony. These layers call for “democracy” in order to maintain a degree of independence from Beijing and to keep the legal system, particularly in commercial law that allowed Hong Kong to become a major financial hub.

Confronted with mass protests that the Democratic Party neither expected nor wanted, its leaders have sought to compromise and placate Beijing. In the lead up to this year’s demonstration on July 1, Martin Lee proposed a motion in the Legislative Council calling on the people of Hong Kong “to join hands with the central government”. It was adopted unanimously.

The Democratic Party took no action against the provocative arrest of Alex Ho on prostitution charges, despite obvious indications that he had been set up. Fearing a reaction from Beijing, it raised no objections to his imprisonment without trial. As an article on the Asia Times website entitled “The end of the HK Democrats as we know them” pointed out: “The Democrats’ decision to ignore him and not make a political issue out of the case was considered less judicious than spineless.”

The class orientation of the Democratic Party also means that it has no answers to the growing social and economic crisis in Hong Kong. The growth of alternative financial centres on the mainland such as Shanghai has undercut Hong Kong’s position. In the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis, the economy has slowed, leading to growing poverty and unemployment in conditions where there is no effective social welfare. The Democratic Party’s economic restructuring policies would only compound these social problems.

Parties and individuals considered to be more willing to fight for democratic rights and better living standards benefitted at the Democratic Party’s expense. The Asia Times article noted: “The Democratic Party might be on the wane, but the broad democratic front continues to expand. More than 60 percent of the vote went to people calling for more democracy and opposing Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa. One now sees the Article 45 Concern Group... with four seats in the Legislative Council. This heavyweight legal team’s electoral success definitely points to the fear Hong Kong people have of the mainland’s lack of law.”

The Article 45 Concern Group was only formed last year in the wake of the huge July 1 protest against proposed security laws. The organisation’s name refers to the section of the Basic Law—the legal basis for the 1997 British handover of the colony—that stipulates the goal of universal suffrage and full direct elections for the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive.

Two independent democrats were also elected. Andrew Cheng was one of the two radio hosts forced to resign after receiving a series of threats over their aggressive anti-Beijing criticism. Cheng stepped aside after thugs broke into the office of a trading company where he is a partner, asked for the radio commentator by name, and then doused the office with red paint. Cheng’s “Teacup in a storm”, which featured biting though limited criticism of Hong Kong’s authorities, was rated the city’s most popular radio show.

The second independent was Leung Kwok-hung, also known as “Longhair”, a 48-year-old protester and self-proclaimed “Marxist” and “Trotskyist”, who has featured prominently in Hong Kong demonstrations with his Che Guevara tee-shirt and long flowing hair. While Leung’s protest politics have nothing to do with Marxism or Trotskyism, he was one of the few candidates who appealed to working people hit by unemployment and cutbacks to pensions and social services.

Leung won his working class constituency with 60,000 votes—three times the number he receiving in 2000. Luisa Tam, an editor at the South China Morning Post, explained his appeal: “People are tired of all the blah-blah-blah from legislators. They wanted someone who will kick some ass, and Longhair’s the one to do it.”

In the final analysis, none of these “pro-democracy” parties and individuals is fundamentally different from the Democratic Party—all of them seek to pressure Beijing and its loyal supporters in Hong Kong for concessions. But the fact that a significant segment of voters have chosen more confrontational figures and parties signals a political radicalisation is underway as people seek to defend democratic rights and living standards.

Far from the result consolidating Beijing’s position in Hong Kong, the outcome reveals an explosive build up of hostility and anger that has been completely frustrated by the contrived and limited poll on Sunday.

 

[pk]

Another huge cut and paste from Bigfish.

*yawn*

 

[Jessiedog]

I'm inclined to agree in this instance pk.

(Much as I love biggies passion for the "world socialsts" web site.)

If anyone's interested tho', I'll respond para' by para' to the C&P.

Many good points (most of which I've covered on this thread already), some inaccuracies (which really ought to be corrected,) and even some new thoughts (that beg comment).

Shall I?



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Speaking of tails, Jessie

Perhaps one should give the pan-dems a break. As we know, in petland, it is easy to step on one's tails. Still, no excuse for Yeung Sum's boys ...

Btw did you get a kick out of Cheung Mo's debut appearance chez Tung?

I too wonder, what does this really mean? Does it go any further than NOT seeing Jiang in his swimming trunks?

Later.

- Meadow.

No Meadow!

I will not excuse the fuck up we made of this election.

The pan-dems are in disarray. In fact, IMO, there is no real "pan-dem" any more.

The Democratic Party (DP) have taken a beating and deservedly so. Idiots whoring in China (even if the whore was provided by the CCP - with polaroids in place). Idiots "forgetting" that they still own 50% of a company that they pay rent to for an office, and that that rent is ultimately payed for an office owned by/connected to the Democratic Party itself.

No!!

No wonder Long Hair got in (I'm actually beginning to think my vote for him was worthwhile). He's a mate of mine. A complete fucking nutter.

BUT.... have no doubt that he will buckle under the inevitable pressure that will now be brought to bear on him - not in any "sell out" way - he, like I am, is a Bimbo.

just......that this is a "real" FUCKING game that we're playing here and I'm not sure he will cope with the "millions" of sychphants, communists, triads, capitalists, and CUNTS that will now rain down upon him.

How is he supposed to know what to do? I trust him- but I'm not sure he will cope. There are MASSIVE forces at play here.

MASSIVE!!! HUUUUUGE amounts of FUCKING MONEY involved in this game.

And only 12 years left before it all goes COMPLETELY tits up.

The powers that be (MONEY PEEPS) are not gonna waste their time. They are squeezing the last remaining few hundred BILLION US$ out of here beforehand!!

It's a REALLY nasty fucking game here. And the chips are now down.

I am making plans to evacuate my family - one way tickets!.

I will stay. I have five (previously seven before the "poisoner") ugly mongrel dogs that I rescued from the streets as pups that I owe allegience to.

And I have NO FUCKING MONEY, so I DON"T FUCKING CARE. I don't give a FUCK!


The Article 45 group of lawyers is a rising camp (4 seats in LegCo,), and has, rightly, split the pan-dem vote. As LargeCods C&P points out, however, they are further to the "right wing" than even the rich peeps that are (pretty much all elected members of) the Democratic Party. Sure, they will fight for democracy here, but thay will NOT fight for the poor peeps!

And Albert Cheng (NOT "Andrew" as in your C&P bf,) is another rich peep, who took votes from the Dems'.


Bigfish....I love and respect you, and therefore WILL respond to your C&P paragraph by paragraph. But PLEASE.....DON'T Do it again on this thread.....(Not that it's mine, it's Meadows thread - so feel free to slap me down Meadow), but..........bigfish. Post your own fucking thoughts and words here........Please.

I would have MUCH more Respect you if you would!



NOW!



Meadow,

Your link about the "Jiang handover" had an interesting point:

"In recent months, there has been speculation that Mr Jiang has been suffering health problems."

I have not heard this "rumour" before, but, at 78 years old it would hardly be surprising.

With this info' (speculation ) I now feel that, there has been a deal done between the Hu camp and the (dominant within the NPC) Jiang camp.

An accomodation has been reached. It is "necessary" in order to facilitate the "stability" of the "Party" (CCP).

Still, with Jiang's imminent death (with this new info' I predict before year end 2005, but *******IMPORTANT******** (see note below about Deng.) ), we can only hope that a 62 year old Hu will genuinely be a new "younger" leader after Jiang's demise.

In the final analysis, there is NO choice but to liberalise MUCH more over the next decade. Without such loosening, the social unrest that will explode will result in a carnage 20 times worse than the "picnic" of Tiananmen. Let's hope that Hu manages to wrestle control of the NPC before Jiang's death!

Otherwise.......

China will implode within 20 years (OMG, WHO was it that kept a download of the original "China?" thread by nano? Mrs Magpie? I thought it was Idris.

Anyone know? Please ask around peeps. there is SOOOOOO much info' on there that we need to review. Twelve hundred posts (methinks, it was - or was that just views?) HELP PLEASE!!! SOMEONE DOES HAVE A COPY ON THEIR HARD DISK.

Meanwhile.....

I'm tired now.

Need to sleep.

Bigfish?

Please contribute to this thread IN YOUR OWN WORDS. I love you, but pk is correct about your C&P's.

Meadow?

This is your thread, not mine. But, frankly, I've made it clear (many, many, times,) that your C&P's and lack of comment from your own heart, are equally useless.

It's your home as much as mine boss! And I'm sick of being your "dancing monkey" here.

Post your own words please - or don't, but fewer C&P's, and fewer questions please!

Please!!!

We are all "BUSY" y'know! And at least you have a job and MONEY.....I don't!


pk,

Thanks for the bigfish "reality interuption". You stole my feelings. I will be in the UK in the second week of December. I hope to meet you again....Sincerely! And hope that it won't, this time, just be a twenty minute meeting - with me already ratfaced. and still buying YOU beers. Your round mate (I only want one pint of "good" real ale...Fair?). 'Twould be good to see you again and converse for a bit longer, when I'm less pissed - ya surplus cunt!!! .


Now!

Thomas77,

If you still feel I have no understanding of the "bigger picture" in China and how a democratic HK may impact upon it......

You obviously never read nano's original "China?" thread. (Please peeps, someone tell me who it was that posted that they had downloaded a copy to their hard drive!!!).

Doesen't change my feeling that a democratic HK would be good for China, both in the short term and the medium/long.

But you've YET to give any rational reasns why HK should not have what was GUARANTEED us under the basic law. *yawn*.


So......

Finally, for tonight.


See above ********IMPORTANT******

I happen to "know" that Deng Xiaoping did NOT die in February 1997 (just before the HK "handover") as was put forward by the CCP (they needed to "keep him alive" for political reasons).

He was NEVER seen in public after 1993 and actually died in (and/or around) April 1994.

My sources (whilst not "impeccable",) are very reliable. I had suspected as much before the end of 1994. It was "confirmed" to me by three separate sources between January and July 1995.

Oh!

And one last thing peeps.

I've been visited by the Chinese "authorities" in many different ways (six times in all actually) over the last five years.... And I know that they follow my ramblings here.

So.....

You know who I am you CUNTS.

I know who you are too!!!

I know what you stand for and what you are trying to defend. And you know that I know that you know that ULTIMATELY, it is indefensible....you CUNTS.

You know who I am, and that I have little/nothing to lose.

Who will win?

WE WILL, of course!! You twats!!!!

Freedom!!! Democracy!!!

(Oh! And soz about disclosing the "Deng" death thingy! How long do you think you can keep Jiang "alive" once he "retires" from "public view"? You twats!!!)

Nite peeps.

And remember.....

Be nice to each other.

Please!



Woof

 

[pk]

Plenty of beer in London Jessiedog - I'm sure there are a few pints out there with your name on them.

 

[Jessiedog]

Plenty of beer in London Jessiedog - I'm sure there are a few pints out there with your name on them.

Thanks peeks.

See you in December.

Blessings.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

I'm inclined to agree in this instance pk.

(Much as I love biggies passion for the "world socialsts" web site.)

If anyone's interested tho', I'll respond para' by para' to the C&P.

Many good points (most of which I've covered on this thread already), some inaccuracies (which really ought to be corrected,) and even some new thoughts (that beg comment).

Shall I?



Woof

Oh!

And my previous posts were not in response to bf's C&P.

I'll get to that in due course, para' by para'.

If only given a bit o' encouragement to do so.

(Please! Each post takes me over an hour. It's painful for my fingers and wrists [RSI] and doggie paws are shite at typing - I can barely use two digits these days. But if anyone cares, I'll make the effort.)

Blessings all.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Just a note:

Albert Cheng may be relatively wealthy (well off) (as I posted above), but I just saw him being interviewed on TV.

He spoke about representing the "grassroots" (since very few in LegCo will, as he pointed out,) he sounded sincere and committed to following through on his word.

Given that he has been very popular with the "grassroots" of society through his tenure at Commercial Radio (Teacup In A Storm - which, BTW has now - today - been finally axed by Commercial Radio management ,) Intend to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being - whilst keeping a very close eye on his voting record over the next year.

Let's hope he walks the walk as well as he talks the talk, eh?



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Before I get to the world socialist web site C&P from bf, I'd like to pop in this snapshot of "Cheung Mo" ("Long Hair"), Leung Kwok Hung.

I posted it on "his" thread here, started by belboid, but think it is such a nice "moody" piccy, it would be worth dropping in here too.



CHEUNG MO.

Our newest and coolest LegCo member (Member of Parliament to you Brits).

Woof

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Fantastic pic Btw: the photo on the wall behind LH is that of Wei Jingsheng who served 14+ years in prison for posting a banner on democracy in Beijing.

Jessie:

I hope by now you have recovered from the rage of the LegCo election.

Perhaps I have not said this often but I value your opinions and am indebted to your responses and active participation in this thread. Thank you, mate.

Indeed, we have much in common regarding our home, Hong Kong. But we have our differences too. I have not been back for several years and honestly, I feel like a total stranger when it comes to Hong Kong politics. Lacking first-hand information, I NEED to ask questions. Without the depth of knowledge of even the pan-Democratic members, I have no choice but to post links and hope for comprehensive replies.

Now that LH (Cheung Mo) is in, I will be able to obtain more news from the local Chinese-language papers. In addition, Cyd Ho will be starting a column at the MingPao shortly. I'm sure I will learn much from her.

I really don't know enough about the LegCo members to comment on how the election will [or will not] influence events in the next four years. To me, all politicians are alike, give or take a new necktie, or an old mantra. It is the people who are more important because they will bear the burden, as always.

My friend, it is a bit harsh to punish others who post links or c+p. There are plenty of urbanites who are interested in Hong Kong but have shied away from responding because of the lack of first-hand information. Why not give them a chance to express themselves, even if the expression is a quote? C'mon, we Are big enough to embrace even the lowly quotes, no?

U75 is a great site and the political forum is one of the best online discussion groups. If there is one thing we can improve upon, it is the hope that there is still enough tolerance among us.

Cheers.

- Meadow.

 

[belboid]

it's a magnificent picture - i've forwarded it on to umpteen people already, along with some of your comments about him, nope that's alright.

(oh, do you happen to know his position on the class nature of the soviet union btw, obviously vital information before i can tell people whether he's a good bloke or not )

 

[Thomas77]

Poor Jessie... Please keep this thread alive and that poor deluded girl sain!!

 

[Jessiedog]

Poor Jessie... Please keep this thread alive and that poor deluded girl sain!!

Nice to see you here again Thom.



Woof

 

[Thomas77]

life stuff and work commitemnts are taking up much of my time at the moment. But still find the time to have a look at the crazy's now and again. Oh and the not so crazy's!!

take care

Democracy for Hong Kong but only when China on a whole can handle it!!

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Just stoppin in to bid farewell to one of Hong Kong's most infamous drinking establishments

After 14 years, Club 64 is finally closing its doors, no longer able to pay the increasing rents following the sale of the the building housing it to new landlords.

source: telegraph.co.uk
Officially the pub was named after the Beatles' When I'm Sixty-Four, but everyone knows it is a reference to the Tiananmen Square massacre, on June 4 (6/4), 1989, the year before the pub opened. Each year, after the annual candlelight memorial in Victoria Park, the organisers go to the pub to continue their vigil. "Long-hair" Leung Kwok-heung, the Trotskyite activist who has become Hong Kong's favourite protester, made the pub his second home.

I will miss it. Hong Kong will miss it. Adieu, Club 64.

Club 64
12 Wing Wah Lane
Tel: (852) 2523-2801
Last day of operation: 30 October, 2004.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...18/ixworld.html

 

[Jessiedog]

Just stoppin in to bid farewell to one of Hong Kong's most infamous drinking establishments

After 14 years, Club 64 is finally closing its doors, no longer able to pay the increasing rents following the sale of the the building housing it to new landlords.

I will miss it. Hong Kong will miss it. Adieu, Club 64.

Club 64
12 Wing Wah Lane
Tel: (852) 2523-2801
Last day of operation: 30 October, 2004.

I'll be there tonite, of course. Usually head up there at midnight on Saturdays to hang out and beat a few bongos for a few hours during the late nite impro' jazz sessions.

The bar will be sorely, sorely missed.

Grace (the manager) and the staff will be there tonite with teary eyes (as will the rest of us, especially teary as all drinks are free of charge until the bar runs dry - tips for the staff only).

Keep it under your hat, but there's a rumour that Grace and Ricky are looking around for a new venue to open a successor, likely to be called Club 7/1 (after the 1st of July marches here).

Can't be the usual late night for me unfortunately, I'm off to Sydney for a few days and need to be at the airport before 6:00 am on Sunday.

Still, should be a good bash, if sad.





Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

'Twas a VERY good bash!!



But I struggled to get up at 4:00am to catch my flight.



Good to be back in HK.

Club 64's new management have agreed to keep the same decor (or lack of it) and run the place as the same (with somewhat increased prices ) kind of establishment. I popped in last night (Friday) to have a look and we'll just have to see if all the old regulars come back.

The new staff seem quite clueless tho' - without Grace and the rest of the crew, the atmosphere just ain't the same. Hope they manage to get 7/1 up and running.

Hmmmmm.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

In London now.

Merry Christmas to World P&P.

Let's (arbitrarily) make 2005 a better year than 2004 (no matter whether 2004 was the best, the worst or somewhere in between).

What say y'all?



Love you all peeps.

Blessings.

MegRae.



Woof

 

[bigfish]

Merry xmas Jessie, everyone..

http://www.fuseairplay.com/xmas/

 

[Jessiedog]

Happy New Year peeps.

Love you all.

As I wrote earlier.....

Lets make 2005 a good one, eh?







Woof

 

[alphaDelta]

Hi.

Just wanted to say - the subject and in fact whole situation is something I know next to nothing about, and which is perhaps surprisingly rarely highlighted here in Europe. This thread's been particularly enlightening, and much of it reminds me of excellent writing like 'From Our Own Correspondent' or 'Letter From America'.

Keep up the good work and all the best to you.

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Happy 2005 everybody!

Although I'm still grieving over the passing of Zhao Ziyang ...

Anyhoo life goes on, keep our heads high and our hopes up, m'kay?

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Kung Hay Fat Choy

To fellow Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Hongkongers and everybody who celebrates with us -

Happy Lunar New Year - the Year of the Rooster

May you be blessed with good health and tons of spirit !

Cheers,

- Meadow

 

[Jessiedog]

Kung Hei Fat Choi peeps.

Have a good Rooster.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Blimey!

Or even.....Kin'ell!!



The SCMP is reporting that Tung Chee Hwa (the SAR's Chief Executive) is going to step down 2 years before his term expires - possibly as early as this month. Chief Secretary Donald Tsang Yam-kuen is being tipped to take over as Acting CE, with an election (well, "selection" - we don't have real elections here,) within six months.

Sounds like Stupid Old Tung is being kicked upstairs to be a Vice Chairman of the CPPCC (Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference).

The plot thickens!

Still, the chances that it will make any difference in hastening HK's democratic development are mighty slim.

Such is life.



Woof

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Thanks for the post Jessie.

Sorry to include the following report from the BBC as it is the only method to obtain news for us overseas "Hongkongers."


source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4310235.stm

Hong Kong leader 'to step down'

Hong Kong's chief executive Tung Chee-hwa has decided to resign for health reasons, according to local press reports.
Mr Tung, 67, took over as leader of the former British colony when it reverted to Chinese rule in 1997.

Last year, Hong Kong saw massive pro-democracy protests, as Mr Tung became increasingly unpopular. His term of office is due to end in 2007.

The government in Hong Kong has so far refused to comment on the reports.

The chairman of the opposition Democratic Party, Lee Wing-tat, said it was strange the reports had not been denied.

"If there's a widespread rumour about this thing, it's very natural for the central authority or even Mr Tung himself to stand out and make everything clear but we don't have that sign at this moment," he said.

Mr Tung also refused to respond to reporters' questions before leaving on Wednesday for a scheduled trip to Beijing, where he will take part in a meeting of the nation's top advisory body, the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).

The BBC's Hong Kong correspondent, Chris Hogg, says that if Mr Tung does resign, it may be announced at the end of the CPPCC meeting in 10 days' time when it is understood he will be made a vice-chairman, a position of some influence.

Such a move would allow Mr Tung to save face, our correspondent says.

His deputy, Donald Tsang, is expected to take over from him, local press reports said.

Chinese and English-language newspapers in Hong Kong added that stress and ill health would be cited as the reason for Mr Tung's resignation.

The papers said the resignation had already been accepted by China's Communist Party politburo.

Mr Tung, a former shipping tycoon, was elected by an 800-member committee loyal to Beijing and was thought to be a safe pair of hands.

But soon he was being characterised as aloof and out of touch, says our correspondent.

He was accused of mishandling major events, from the Asian financial crisis in 1997, to the Sars outbreak in 2003 which killed several hundred people and left the economy on its knees.

The Hong Kong Economic Journal reported that Beijing's faith in Mr Tung's capacity to create greater stability in Hong Kong had faded.

Many on the streets of Hong Kong said they would welcome a new leader.

"I will be happy if he goes," secretary Rosanna Chung told Reuters news agency. "He's not good. He has been slow in implementing policies."

But others expressed concern that Mr Tung's resignation could allow Beijing to tighten its control over the territory.

"Maybe Beijing has (already) decided who should succeed Tung," said pro-democracy legislator Emily Lau.

"If that's the case, it's very unfortunate because everything is being controlled and managed and Hong Kong people have no say," she said.


I don't know too much about Bow-tie Tsang except the fact that he "was urging HK women to start having children, like, three kids ..."

And - is it time to break out that bottle of Bombay Sapphire? Anyhoo, Joy Gin

 

[Jessiedog]

Tung Chee Hwa, Hong Kong's Chief Executive handed in his resignation at 4:30pm today - March 10th 2005.

Now what?



Woof