Hamburg church shooting, 09.03.23: many dead

[Idris2002]

On phone, so I can't post a link yet. But seven people, including the shooter, are reported killed in an attack on a Jehovah Witness centre in Hamburg.

 

[Idris2002]

Link:

Several people reported dead in Hamburg shooting – DW – 03/09/2023

The shooting occurred at a Jehovah's Witness hall in Hamburg, Germany's second-largest city. Police said several victims had gunshot wounds, and a number of others were injured.

amp.dw.com

 

[danny la rouge]

BBC have it too now: Deadly shooting at Hamburg Jehovah's Witness hall Deadly shooting at Hamburg Jehovah's Witness hall

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What an awful thing. I wonder at the motive.

 

[bluescreen]

What an awful thing. I wonder at the motive.

Yes. The police are asking people not to speculate but it's hard not to wonder. JWs can be annoying for ringing the doorbell and not running away, but at a rough guess it's more likely to do with individuals at this particular kingdom hall.

 

[Idris2002]

Eight dead now, apparently.

 

[Yossarian]

The shooter was a 35-year-old former Jehovah's Witness who had a weird website, according to Spiegel

On his website, he offered consulting services in areas ranging from "controlling" to "theology," but charged an astronomical daily rate for his services. F. wrote that "since it is usually advisable to see things in a larger context, my minimum daily rate is 250,000 euros plus 19 percent VAT".

Hamburg: Tödliche Schüsse auf Zeugen Jehovas - mutmaßlicher Täter ist 35-jähriger angeblicher Berater

Er inszenierte sich als Berater: Der mutmaßliche Schütze aus Hamburg ist nach SPIEGEL-Informationen ein Betriebswirt – der eine merkwürdige Homepage betrieb.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Bingoman]

Unborn child amongst the dead

I have no words

 

[danny la rouge]

What an awful thing. I wonder at the motive.

I have an uncle (and a cousin) who were Jehovah’s Witnesses. My uncle joined when he was at a low ebb. He was suffering depression and young. They became his whole life. But when he left he was shunned. He had no social life outside of the Witnesses and his former “friends” would leave Post Office queues rather than share one with him.

It’s not hard to see how that might have some bearing here. Although of course I’m not suggesting it’s full or sufficient explanation.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I have an uncle (and a cousin) who were Jehovah’s Witnesses. My uncle joined when he was at a low ebb. He was suffering depression and young. They became his whole life. But when he left he was shunned. He had no social life outside of the Witnesses and his former “friends” would leave Post Office queues rather than share one with him.

It’s not hard to see how that might have some bearing here. Although of course I’m not suggesting it’s full or sufficient explanation.

That was my speculation. I know several former JWs, and they all describe it as a very controlling cult. A couple describe not only shunning, but actual threats to their safety and harassment.

The older I get, the more I think the world would be a better place without religion.

 

[Yossarian]

I hope the Jehovah's Witnesses ban on receiving blood transfusions didn't cause any issues - I think the hospital would probably have been inclined to carry out transfusions first and determine beliefs on the matter later.

 

[Idris2002]

The peelers had been notified that he was a risk, but took no action.

Hamburg police were tipped off about gunman, but did not take his weapon

Officers were told of concerns about mental health of man who went on to shoot dead four men, two women and an unborn baby

www.theguardian.com

 

[not henry]

The 'anointed'
Based on their understanding of scriptures such as Revelation 14:1-4, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.


About 175,000 people in Germany are Jehovah’s Witnesses, including 3,800 in Hamburg. The Christian movement, founded in the US in the late 19th century, preaches non-violence and is known for door-to-door evangelism.

Whilst not a math(s) professor I can see that there is a difference in numbers.

I think I will stay a Christian as they do not have the cut off numbers of the above

 

[nogojones]

I hope the Jehovah's Witnesses ban on receiving blood transfusions didn't cause any issues - I think the hospital would probably have been inclined to carry out transfusions first and determine beliefs on the matter later.

I think it varies on the patient. I think most refuse whole blood, but some will accept some blood products. In the UK they tend to carry a sort of consent card or document outlining their beliefs and wishes. IIRC, there are possible alternative blood products that are specifically useful for JW's, but how useful that will be for a severe traumatic wound I wouldn't have a scooby about.

I personally don't mind the JW's. I admire their firmly held pacifistic beliefs, lots held firm and did time for them. I'll normally have a chat if they rock up, but I fear they may think I'm beyond saving now, given that the last ones I saw were pre-covid and I spent 45 minutes trying to persuade them that Satan was misunderstood and they should try to embrace him more. The practice of shunning ex-JW's is pretty shitty, but they wouldn't be the only religion that does that.

I sort of know someone born into the faith and he stands by the beliefs, but I can't imagine him being particularly active (not sure if you can be a bit of a lapsed JW) as he spends most of his time out on the road shotting crack and gear. But I guess the Bible doesn't specifically condemn crack dealing, so he may still make it into heaven.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Anecdotally, I have heard that it’s easier than ever to get serious weaponry in Europe these days as a result of the Ukraine situation . Probably not relevant to this incident but yeh