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Griffin and BNP strategy

Attica said:
FFS - he compared it to NOTHING, you couldn't tell how their vote had changed in the years in between - it was a static viewpoint. He included no %%% changes at all so you couldn't come to any conclusions regarding consolidation or atrophy with those percentages.

Basic understanding basic understanding. You lot are too busy being self referential (Back slapping/supporting each other/being nice etc yak) you have no idea of how bad your politics and analysis are.
Click to expand...

ok whatever .. now please post the stats you want other people to post for you
 
durruti02 said:
ok whatever .. now please post the stats you want other people to post for you
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Give over - he was full of hot air - pretending he was showing statistics for a serious comparative analysis! HE DID NOT...

Pardon me for saying the 'emporer has no clothes', but that has been painfully obvious for a considerable amount of time now...:(
 
Just joined today and have not read most of the previous comments on this topic.
Immigration(for me anyway) is an extremely complex issue and one thing I have learned in my 50+ years is that ones stance primarily depends on ones own circumstances.In London where I've always lived,either in the heart of or the surrounding Suburbs peoples views are,invariably,shaped by their age and other pertinent factors.
While I could never entertain voting for a Party like The BNP I have to forewarn that there is a genuine and simmering resentment amongst countless Whites in England circa 2008...
The problem is this,as I see it:Its one thing being a civilised,tolerant Nation accepting degrees of responsibilty for our "less"-than-illustrious Empirical past and accepting genuine refugees from all over where there is a desperate necessity to escape from theor own lands i.e.Somalia would be an example....however the fact is that the overwhelming majority of people DO "choose" to live amongst their own,whether we like the fact or not.Certainly most Asians would be happy to live entirely and exclusively in all-Asian areas.Most Jewish people likewise.One has only to read the largest Black Website to see the views of many Black people from all walks of life in the UK(they,at best,"tolerate" living in Babylon and their White colleagues but nearly all say they would have as little to do with other Races/Cultures as possible in their "ideal" World.)...I'm sure we can all think of other Communities(Chinese etc-Soho) who also feel the same.Yet,it seems,in some quarters should Whites feel the same they are (insert the word(s) of your choice):Little Englanders/Racists ad infinitum/ad nauseum...
When I grew up in the heart of South London near Peckham and (what is now known as) the "South London Murder Mile" which comprises Kennington/Camberwell/Peckham/Brixton the area was 99% White British.So much so that one could,literally,walk around from one week to another without seeing anything other than fellow YT's....Now??....I have returned to "Inner" London for a sentimental journey down Memory Lane during the last week and "YT" has virtually disappearred in most of these areas other than some "trendy" middle-class areas/some presence on old Council Estates.I have travelled on every Tube line...stopped off at around 50 areas from Shepherds Bush to Camberwell-Hackney-Neasden-Docklands-East End-Seven Sisters-Notting Hill etc etc. the same pattern...the Whites are clearly(by their invisibility) in the minority in most of these areas which only 40/45 were predominantly or exclusively White.
My question is this:-Can you understand the resentment of White-British people to this "invasion" as this is NOT as I described but IS being swamped...even many of the Whites I assumed were British that I heard on the Tube were obviously from The Balkan Countries!
As someone who actually has more "Second-Third" Generation immigrant friends than all my White friends combined (lol) and whose last 4 g/fs have not been Born in Britain I find this,as i said,at the intro,a complex issue as everyone must be treated with equal respect and judgement and viewed as an individual and yet,in my lifetime,I am clearly seeing in area after area in all parts of London such a radical change that the Racial Group that I am in is fast disappearring!..
How can I,or others be happy with that,especially if so few immigrant Families can create the current situation then its obvious that the White-British percentage will continually decrease in future years.
Interested on peoples thoughts and views please.
 
Cockneyboy said:
Just joined today and have not read most of the previous comments on this topic.
Immigration(for me anyway) is an extremely complex issue and one thing I have learned in my 50+ years is that ones stance primarily depends on ones own circumstances.In London where I've always lived,either in the heart of or the surrounding Suburbs peoples views are,invariably,shaped by their age and other pertinent factors.
While I could never entertain voting for a Party like The BNP I have to forewarn that there is a genuine and simmering resentment amongst countless Whites in England circa 2008...
The problem is this,as I see it:Its one thing being a civilised,tolerant Nation accepting degrees of responsibilty for our "less"-than-illustrious Empirical past and accepting genuine refugees from all over where there is a desperate necessity to escape from theor own lands i.e.Somalia would be an example....however the fact is that the overwhelming majority of people DO "choose" to live amongst their own,whether we like the fact or not.Certainly most Asians would be happy to live entirely and exclusively in all-Asian areas.Most Jewish people likewise.One has only to read the largest Black Website to see the views of many Black people from all walks of life in the UK(they,at best,"tolerate" living in Babylon and their White colleagues but nearly all say they would have as little to do with other Races/Cultures as possible in their "ideal" World.)...I'm sure we can all think of other Communities(Chinese etc-Soho) who also feel the same.Yet,it seems,in some quarters should Whites feel the same they are (insert the word(s) of your choice):Little Englanders/Racists ad infinitum/ad nauseum...
When I grew up in the heart of South London near Peckham and (what is now known as) the "South London Murder Mile" which comprises Kennington/Camberwell/Peckham/Brixton the area was 99% White British.So much so that one could,literally,walk around from one week to another without seeing anything other than fellow YT's....Now??....I have returned to "Inner" London for a sentimental journey down Memory Lane during the last week and "YT" has virtually disappearred in most of these areas other than some "trendy" middle-class areas/some presence on old Council Estates.I have travelled on every Tube line...stopped off at around 50 areas from Shepherds Bush to Camberwell-Hackney-Neasden-Docklands-East End-Seven Sisters-Notting Hill etc etc. the same pattern...the Whites are clearly(by their invisibility) in the minority in most of these areas which only 40/45 were predominantly or exclusively White.
My question is this:-Can you understand the resentment of White-British people to this "invasion" as this is NOT as I described but IS being swamped...even many of the Whites I assumed were British that I heard on the Tube were obviously from The Balkan Countries!
As someone who actually has more "Second-Third" Generation immigrant friends than all my White friends combined (lol) and whose last 4 g/fs have not been Born in Britain I find this,as i said,at the intro,a complex issue as everyone must be treated with equal respect and judgement and viewed as an individual and yet,in my lifetime,I am clearly seeing in area after area in all parts of London such a radical change that the Racial Group that I am in is fast disappearring!..
How can I,or others be happy with that,especially if so few immigrant Families can create the current situation then its obvious that the White-British percentage will continually decrease in future years.
Interested on peoples thoughts and views please.
Click to expand...

A thoughtful post. My answer to these observations is that 6/7% of the London population was black in 1780 - approx 10-20K (reference "The London Hanged" by Peter Linebaugh, Penguin, 1991, page 350). There have been black people in what is now the UK since Roman times. I think there is historical amnesia and a lot of romantic thinking about a 'glorious all white past' which never existed and which does not stand up to serious investigation.

I would also say that change is constantly happening. There has been no 'invasion' nor 'swamping' - that is prejeudicial language, what there has been is increasing mobility in the global age which has affected migration possibilities through economic integration (eg. EEC). AS usual, the poor migrant communities go to poor areas, and so it goes on. In this case 'white people' - i prefer the term 'pink people' cos it is more accurate - have moved out of the inner London areas because they could.

Where is the crisis? It is a crisis of romantic nationalism - a crisis for an imaginary community and an invented tradition.
 
Attica said:
One nasty dead ex BNP fascist who won't darken people's lives again;

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/07/404308.html

THe little shit couldn't even stand himself - so he topped himself. The only good Nazi is a DEAD ONE:cool:
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Would you have said that if he would have been a Muslim who had hanged himself in jail, who had been convicted of terrorist offences?

A black man in jail convicted of serious crimes, who had hanged himself?

People like yourself are the reason the left never achieve anything, with white middle class sixth form student comments like that.
 
sonny61 said:
Would you have said that if he would have been a Muslim who had hanged himself in jail, who had been convicted of terrorist offences?

A black man in jail convicted of serious crimes, who had hanged himself?

People like yourself are the reason the left never achieve anything, with white middle class sixth form student comments like that.
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Bullshit shithead. The only time I have for Nazis is to visit them in the cemetary. This IS the working class tradition in Britian, millions sacrificed during World War 2 to get rid of these poisonous creeps.
 
May I as a Labour party member, thank the likes of Attica for their dedication in trying to stop the BNP and helping keep my party in power.

Don't expect anything back for it though.
 
sonny61 said:
May I as a Labour party member, thank the likes of Attica for their dedication in trying to stop the BNP and helping keep my party in power.

Don't expect anything back for it though.
Click to expand...

And may i, as a BNP member, thank you and the labour party for ensuring our continual growth
 
butchersapron said:
And may i, as a BNP member, thank you and the labour party for ensuring our continual growth
Click to expand...

Really, reading your posts I would have never have guessed.

The BNP do take votes from the Labour the majority of times, but they do also take them from the Tories.

My opinion on the BNP, is that they get to much attention.
They are tiny, with a handful of council seats, although they do take some support of Labour in local elections.

BTW, I have been called a fascist as a member of the Labour party, numerous time by the far left, nothing new.

I have always wondered why the far left don't concentrate on getting a strong far left party going with real appeal to the voters, instead of chasing a tiny pary of far right nutters such as the BNP around.

Then again, thinking of Respect, SSP and what happened to them, maybe it is best to keep on with what they are doing.
 
sonny61 said:
Really, reading your posts I would have never have guessed.

The BNP do take votes from the Labour the majority of times, but they do also take them from the Tories.

My opinion on the BNP, is that they get to much attention.
They are tiny, with a handful of council seats, although they do take some support of Labour in local elections.

BTW, I have been called a fascist as a member of the Labour party, numerous time by the far left, nothing new.

I have always wondered why the far left don't concentrate on getting a strong far left party going with real appeal to the voters, instead of chasing a tiny pary of far right nutters such as the BNP around.

Then again, thinking of Respect, SSP and what happened to them, maybe it is best to keep on with what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Does anyone look 'nuttier' than New Labour at the moment? Leaderless, directionless, clueless, a collapsing membership, despised by the working class, sneered at by the unions and 24 million in debt- remind us what it is you stand for again?
 
Just a point; I have been looking at the history Workshop journal archive and have come across this;

2007. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of History Workshop Journal, all rights reserved.

Excessive Memories: Slavery, Insurance and Resistance
Anita Rupprecht

Abstract

Over the last few years, the African American led campaign for Slavery Reparations has combined the project of historical excavation with the demand for recognition and redress by moving cultural memory directly into the adversarial sphere. Activists have brought a set of court actions that identify seventeen major international corporations whose predecessors were enriched via the profits amassed, directly or indirectly, through the transatlantic slave trade and slavery between 1619 and 1865. While the cases have been dismissed, a series of Slavery Era Bills have been passed in several states. These Bills require companies that do business in the vicinity to research their records and to disclose evidence of any involvement in slavery or the slave trade.

This article presents a detailed analysis of one such report by the insurance corporation Royal Sun & Alliance, submitted in 2002. It demonstrates that the company disclosure opens up a hitherto occluded aspect of slave resistance. As the report confirms, eighteenth-century maritime insurance policies on slaves in transit to the Americas initially developed in relation to European kidnap and ransom policies. In the later part of the eighteenth century underwriters began to include clauses in their policies that compensated traders for losses in the event of insurrection. Insurrection was considered to be so predictable that policies also included an excess of five or ten per cent.

In conclusion, the article argues that the Reparations movement is reactivating the history of slavery by facilitating the exposure of connections between the past and the present. As the history of insurance reveals, slavery and resistance are central to the development of key conceptual structures that govern the financial and legal parameters of contemporary global capital.

Normally the campaign for reparations in the UK (if it exists) get shouted down, 'you can't blame people today for the past etc' and it is argued that it causes divisions. However, to me that is simplistic empiricism.

For the people who are directly concerned the struggle for social justice and identity - for visibility, is one 4 their conciousnesses - not other peoples. If other people get agitated that is their problem and not those who associate their history with the past. This article shows that the development and current existence of capitalist social relations is opened up through campaigns for justice in and from the past. Interesting stuff.
 
Attica said:
BNP do appallingly in London! 1.3% hahahahahahahaha

Redbridge LBC, Cranbrook
date: 10/07/2008

Con 1625 (60.0 +7.7)
Lab 729 (27.0 –4.5)
LD Helen Duffett 318 (11.7 –4.5)
BNP 37 (1.3 +1.3)
Majority 896
Turnout 30.0
http://www.aldc.org/-blog/article/238/10/07/2008/Redbridge_LBC,_Cranbrook
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Indeed.

Although it should be noted this is an area with a huge ethnic minority voting base (both the candidates for the 2 main parties were Asian) and even you Attica should be able to understand that not too many people from such groups vote BNP.
 
Two council by-elections yesterday with BNP participation:

Boston Coastal Ward, Boston Borough Council (E Mids):

Cons 344
Ind 306
LD 213
BNP 119 (10.7%)
UKIP 88
Lab 44​

Simpasture Ward, Great Aycliffe Town Council (County Durham):

Lab 251
BNP 154 (28.1%)
Ind 143​
 
Paul cannot stop being a wanker

Paul Marsh said:
Indeed.

Although it should be noted this is an area with a huge ethnic minority voting base (both the candidates for the 2 main parties were Asian) and even you Attica should be able to understand that not too many people from such groups vote BNP.
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You just don't seem to understand propaganda Paul. Some of the people we want to influence, who may get active against the BNP, want to know that it is a struggle they can win, that the BNP are not high and mighty, that there are many others who think like they do. Here, we can ridicule the BNP and you choose to give them succour.Well done. Wanker.
 
I love the juxtaposition of the 2 posts above.

One, pointing out that in Attica's home turf of Durham the BNP just took 28% of the vote in an election.

The other Attica berating me as a 'wanker' for the crime of taking the BNP seriously........
 
Paul cannot stop being a wanker

Paul Marsh said:
I love the juxtaposition of the 2 posts above.

One, pointing out that in Attica's home turf of Durham the BNP just took 28% of the vote in an election.

The other Attica berating me as a 'wanker' for the crime of taking the BNP seriously........
Click to expand...

Way to miss the point dimwit. Why you are in the position you are IS a quirk of fate, an historical accident - CW shrinks/splits/loses members so that you are left. Wow. Impressed I am not. Why you chose to be an anarcho 'cos of the Nirvana video' says it all really, picking your ideology off the shelf from a struggle free Prison officer class background says it all really. You are anally retentive:)

You mean the ward where they lost, and in an area where they have no councillors locally or at a county wide level? That one, where they are completely marginal and irrelevant in politics? Oh.

I do take the BNP seriously, whatever makes you think that I do not. BUT mine is a political rejection of the BNP - this political rejection once was part of Class War politics, to delegitimate.

I choose to laugh at their marginality, racist and fascist politics, stupidity and basic irrelevance (just as I laugh at your politics). To encourage others with the sheer lightness and joy of hating them, for a movement with life that will do things and politically reject them. Your dullard crap is shite, you cannot bore people into revolution Paul. It's time you realised that.
 
Attica said:
I do take the BNP seriously, whatever makes you think that I do not.
Click to expand...

I know that comparing your comments over even a short period is probably a waste of time, but this line from Mayday issue 2 stands out:

"...they are not anything other than marginal. In recent years they have gone from totally irrelevant, to completely marginal".

All this despite last year being:

"2007 was the year to try and breakthrough, equivalent to Hitler's 'Battle of the Bulge' in 1944, where Hitler hoped a counter offensive - a dash for the sea, would force the allies on the Western European mainland back over the sea to England. That was a failure as well as the BNP at this election".


And there was everyone else thinking the targets that really mattered to Griffin were the London Assembly and the next European elections!

Of successful BNP results in Durham you commented:

"The Sedgefield and Spennymoor results are also based upon certain nests of runts, the battle for these areas is still very far from lost and will continue. The old left and northern sensibilities are some of what is preventing a BNP breakthrough in these areas".

Hanging your hat on an old Labour/TU revival is certainly a gamble, especially as the BNP can simply wait on existing old stagers dying out. There is not a 50 year old version of Dave Douglass out there, or a 40 year old version, a 30 year old version and there sure as hell is not a 20 year old version. That world has gone.
Secondly the 'nest' in Great Aycliffe is a new one - they had never stood there before.

Still, I am sure they would be receptive to talk of "a movement of movements" or even "Autonomous anti-fascist practice". Somebody has to be.............
 
"...they are not anything other than marginal. In recent years they have gone from totally irrelevant, to completely marginal".
Click to expand...

How can anyone say this after the BNP are getting electoral results which the far-right has never achieved in this country?
 
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