Griffin and BNP strategy

[durruti02]

Really? I don't believe you. You and your pals talk about immigration in terms of "British people" or "white working class". These are rather veiled expressions; a way of claiming that immigrants are getting preferential treatment. The trouble is, neither you nor your pals are able to differentiate between migrant workers, refugees and immigrants. To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women.

troll!! fucking idiot!!

am reportin this post .. you are lying, smearing, misrepresenting and trying to destroy threads you do not approve of .. you are a sad old stalinist whose failed politics we are trying to pick up the pieces of ..


p.s. i asked before .. if my categorisation is wrong re migrants ( looking for work)/refugees ( fleeing war oppression) (you never actually said WHY you thought it was wrong) what is yours??

 

[durruti02]

i have reported ninos post above (355 )

i don't like to do things behind peoples backs so .. this is what i said

"Hi mods .. i am reporting this post .. nino is deliberately .. and for the hundreth time ... causing shit by accusing me of racism and when i give clear evidence to the contrary again and again calling me a liar. ok so i can ignore that. (essentially i and many believe he tries to deliberately disrupt threads that he has a problem with)

BUT here with this post i have had enough . particularly the abusive shit about women at the bottom of this post .. this wanker is abusing the anonimity of the web to be abusive .. and i have to say he consistently gets away with it .. cheers D!"

 

[becky p]

Your attempt to prove yourself correct has you reaching for the shotgun in an effort to hit the bullseye.



Really? I don't believe you. You and your pals talk about immigration in terms of "British people" or "white working class". These are rather veiled expressions; a way of claiming that immigrants are getting preferential treatment. The trouble is, neither you nor your pals are able to differentiate between migrant workers, refugees and immigrants. To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women.

nino
Have you got any Black friends?

 

[dash_two]

look here and look at america where the almost militarised border with mexico has minimal affect on stoppping northward migration

The US government does not appear to be particularly serious about stopping Mexican immigration. The fences and patrols are probably just a cosmetic sop to redneck opinion. (I think the distinction between 'legal' and 'illegal' immigration is a bogus one btw.) Certainly most Americans don't think that the current immigration bill being debated in the Senate will have any real effect on the situation:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/just_16_believe_senate_bill_will_reduce_illegal_immigration

Of more interest is the situation in Finland, which you might guess would be chock-full of Russians seeking work nowadays. But numbers of Russian immigrants remain fairly modest and it is doubtful that this is down to the Finns having some super-effective border fence. More likely it is because the Finnish labour market is very highly regulated.

Beyond that, the Finns seem to have a reasonably successful economy and society (at least in terms of wealth distribution, health and crime stats), so it's not obvious what they would need lots of immigration for. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[nino_savatte]

troll!! fucking idiot!!

am reportin this post .. you are lying, smearing, misrepresenting and trying to destroy threads you do not approve of .. you are a sad old stalinist whose failed politics we are trying to pick up the pieces of ..


p.s. i asked before .. if my categorisation is wrong re migrants ( looking for work)/refugees ( fleeing war oppression) (you never actually said WHY you thought it was wrong) what is yours??

Who's trolling? What is there to report in my post? You're getting a wee bit carried away with yourself, aren't you? Just because you can't get your own way, you make up things about my post that do not exist. You're a fantasist, durutti as this quote of your shows.

you are a sad old stalinist whose failed politics we are trying to pick up the pieces of ..

I'm a "Stalinist"? It's pretty clear that you don't know what a Stalinist is. Would a Stalinist speak out against centralised state control? Would a Stalinist have libertarian impulses? All of this from someone who had "admired" the RCP.

It is rather obvious what a migrant worker is and it is all too obvious what an immigrant is. You tried to slip and slide around with your definitions.

You accuse me of "lying", "smearing" and "misrepresenting" but these are the things that you do. You project again and again. Why do you have to make up things? Why are you so defensive?

 

[nino_savatte]

i have reported ninos post above (355 )

i don't like to do things behind peoples backs so .. this is what i said

"Hi mods .. i am reporting this post .. nino is deliberately .. and for the hundreth time ... causing shit by accusing me of racism and when i give clear evidence to the contrary again and again calling me a liar. ok so i can ignore that. (essentially i and many believe he tries to deliberately disrupt threads that he has a problem with)

BUT here with this post i have had enough . particularly the abusive shit about women at the bottom of this post .. this wanker is abusing the anonimity of the web to be abusive .. and i have to say he consistently gets away with it .. cheers D!"

Hmmm, maybe I should report the post where you C&Ped beckyp's post into my quote. There is nothing, nothing at all my post that is worthy of the mod's attentions. You're a wee bit too sensitive durutti...either that or I've got you rattled; touched a raw nerve.

You don't like the truth, do you?

Oh and where did I "accuse" you of racism, you sad wee shaver? You're a fantasist.

 

[treelover]

Yes, the way the insufferable 'anti-statist' (btw, what makes you think that minority position gives you any more credence) NINO accuses people with a different view from him of racism, a powerful denunciation that shouldn't be used lightly, is increasingly becoming intolerable and not condusive to a decent debate here on urban,

temp ban?

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, the way the insufferable 'anti-statist' (btw, what makes you think that minority position gives you any more credence) NINO accuses people with a different view from him of racism, a powerful denunciation that shouldn't be used lightly, is increasingly becoming intolerable and not condusive to a decent debate here on urban,

temp ban?

You dominate this forum with your views on immigration and now they are being challenged. Sorry but this is the grown up world. Calling for me to be banned is a sure sign of your immaturity.

 

[audiotech]

Your job is done here Nino. Well done indeed.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, i agree MC5, there is a real *nino problem* with this forum - i suspect his frenzied approach (smear, shout, twist, lie, cry, prod and push) is partly why this forum is so dead and serious discussion is rare.

 

[audiotech]

Yes, i agree MC5, there is a real *nino problem* with this forum - i suspect his frenzied approach (smear, shout, twist, lie, cry, prod and push) is partly why this forum is so dead and serious discussion is rare.

The actual 'problem' here is with people like yourself misrepresenting other people's posts. Just like you did to mine as an example.

 

[butchersapron]

Nah, it's not - and you know full well it's not. Nino had made a total idiot of himself on here for your benefit. All he's achieved is people steering clear of him and the forum - suspect that's what he wanted though and it's a siutation that you're more than happy with. He has ruined just about every thread on here on the last 6 months by calling people racists, trots, trolls, telling them to fuck off, telling them to get off his thread, telling them to FOAD, lying about their posts, pretending to put them on ignore when they'd cornered him. Yeah - just what this forum needed. Someone trying to shut down debate that they personally don't like.

It's pathetic.

 

[durruti02]

Your job is done here Nino. Well done indeed.

you have never said a more honest word MC .. between the two of you but aprticularly nino you have lied twisted made smeared continually sabotaged thread after thread

you claim to want debate but any time anyone posts articles stats research you ignore it ..


i have tried consistently to engage nino .. see one of my latest threads

e.g. if the BNP are using housing to get votes WE need to be totally clear about what is true and what is NOT .. nino kept it under his hat until a few ays ago that he was for many years in housing .. but will he then share his knowledeg with us??? like fuck .. he and you believe any poitis outside of your narrow agenda is suspect .. so NO engagement but disruption .. oathetic really pathetic

p.s. i notice your gloating new tag .. mob rule .. sad ..

 

[durruti02]

p.s. MC5 .. is this acceptable? no wonder the left is fucked with people like you and nino as part of it .. you prove everything i say about it

"To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women"

 

[audiotech]

Nah, it's not - and you know full well it's not. Nino had made a total idiot of himself on here for your benefit. All he's achieved is people steering clear of him and the forum - suspect that's what he wanted though and it's a siutation that you're more than happy with. He has ruined just about every thread on here on the last 6 months by calling people racists, trots, trolls, telling them to fuck off, telling them to get off his thread, telling them to FOAD, lying about their posts, pretending to put them on ignore when they'd cornered him. Yeah - just what this forum needed. Someone trying to shut down debate that they personally don't like.

It's pathetic.

"Nah, it's not."?

I can't believe you've just posted that when you've just blatently distorted what I'd written.

These boards will be much better in debate, discussion and every other which way, when those who frequently stamp their feet and shout the loudest, when challenged in debate, fuck off.

 

[audiotech]

p.s. MC5 .. is this acceptable? no wonder the left is fucked with people like you and nino as part of it .. you prove everything i say about it

"To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women"

I think nino was making a somewhat ironic point about the direction of your politics which seems to have gone over your big head.

 

[butchersapron]

"Nah, it's not."?

I can't believe you've just posted that when you've just blatently distorted what I'd written.

These boards will be much better in debate, discussion and every other which way, when those who frequently stamp their feet and shout the loudest, when challenged in debate, fuck off.

FFS, i took what you said and made joke out of it. Remember them things? Or are you too busy prodding your fingers into peoples chests and nodding your head whilst nino calls them racist. (Don't quite do it yourself do you?)

I think nino going on ignore from number of people might actually open up some space for real debate here. He's proven that he'll fquoite conscioulsly fuck up debate that he doesn't like (and you'll clap him as he deoes it) so there's not many other options. Anyone?

 

[butchersapron]

I think nino was making a somewhat ironic point about the direction of your politics which seems to have gone over your big head.

No he wasn't - he was directly comparing d. to racist knuckleheads and their slogans and approach. It was disgusting and a pathetic position for anyone who calls themselves an anti-fascist and who posts on a politics forum to take - and given that he's already been banned once for that sort of stuff he's sailing very close to the wind. But it's entirely in character with what i've seen off him on these threads.

 

[audiotech]

p.s. i notice your gloating new tag .. mob rule .. sad ..

"gloating new tag"?

It's a tune: BLACK SABBATH. The Mob Rules (Warner Bros). I liked it because the tabloids usually write "MOB RULE".

Black Sabbath also wrote PARANOID.

 

[audiotech]

FFS, i took what you said and made joke out of it. Remember them things? Or are you too busy prodding your fingers into peoples chests and nodding your head whilst nino calls them racist. (Don't quite do it yourself do you?)

Ha, Ha. How droll.

nino_savette will answer your point about the alleged 'racist taunt' I'm sure. Unless you have him on ignore of course?

 

[butchersapron]

Will he - i'm not very confident of that given his sustained inability to answer anyone elses points or engage in any serious debate for months on end. Deny it, despite the massive weight of evidence i'm sure he will though.

 

[durruti02]

I think nino was making a somewhat ironic point about the direction of your politics which seems to have gone over your big head.

there you have it .. so in your book too, trying to understand how we can oppose the bosses using and abusing immigrants, and workers here, is the same as saying "To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women"

mc .. you are little better tbh .. you and vp have too gone in for nasty ignorent little digs .. it is tragic that this is your contribution to debates on how we deal with the rise of facism in this country .. i even asked you to tell us more about what worked in oldham but you did not .. you prefer your meaningless one liners

 

[audiotech]

there you have it .. so in your book too, trying to understand how we can oppose the bosses using and abusing immigrants, and workers here, is the same as saying "To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women"

mc .. you are little better tbh .. you and vp have too gone in for nasty ignorent little digs .. it is tragic that this is your contribution to debates on how we deal with the rise of facism in this country .. i even asked you to tell us more about what worked in oldham but you did not .. you prefer your meaningless one liners

But you are constantly arguing for further immigration controls. That means you line up with the far-right, which can only lead to more exploitation from the bosses surely?

I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but it's not 'debates' that will deal with the rise of facism in this country.

Oldham? That was many moons ago. You never said at the time that you wanted to know more. If memory serves me right I think it was quite a long reply to your question, that covered most, if not all of your points.

 

[durruti02]

But you are constantly arguing for further immigration controls. That means you line up with the far-right, which can only lead to more exploitation from the bosses surely?

I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but it's not 'debates' that will deal with the rise of facism in this country.

Oldham? That was many moons ago. You never said at the time that you wanted to know more. If memory serves me right I think it was quite a long reply to your question, that covered most, if not all of your points.

MC sorry but are you dim or mischevious?

i have not anywhere at anytime argued for STATE immigration controls .. i have sought to get debate on how immigration CURRENTLY fits into neoliberalism and have alleged that it has been used to undermine wages and workers organisation.

i have further consistently said that i believe immigration controls are dangerous and simply are to discipline us all and that immigration controls do not control immigration anyway .. i do not believe in national/state borders .. but i do belive in the right of communities to decide who and how people shoud live in those communities

i HAVE argued that workers should not allow bosses to cut wages and jobs using any labour and that includes migrant labour .. and i have argued that workers should put pressure on bosses to employ locally as we have c3million unemployed .. and that any campaign to expose what is going on should be quiet clear that it is not the fault of migrants but of spiv and cowboy bosses .. andi have made it abundantly clear that i see this as part of a campaign to rebuild workers/peoples power at work and in communities with the am of fundamentally changing society progressively

and consistently i have argued that this wave of immigration shows the contempt the state/new labour etc have for all people, those here now and migrants. and that indeed it is racist .. get the blacks and slavs in to do our dirty work .. i have also consistently argues that we should be a society that takes in refugees

how on earth you can say this is in anyway close to a far right position is totally and utterly absurd .. i even started a thread to show this .. that the far right simply take a bourgois and racist position on immigration .. they are NOT against immigration but against non white immigration .. they do not even mention any of what i say about workers stopping bosses undercuting wages and unions .. letalone rebuilding unions!!!

and why i suggest you are dim or mischevious is i have pointed this out to you on countless occasions .. so why do ou keep repeating it?


apologies but i did not notice your reply re oldham .. i will look for it .. if you can remember where it is please tell me

 

[nino_savatte]

there you have it .. so in your book too, trying to understand how we can oppose the bosses using and abusing immigrants, and workers here, is the same as saying "To you, they are all the same and they are here taking our housing, our shitty low-paid jobs and fucking our women"

mc .. you are little better tbh .. you and vp have too gone in for nasty ignorent little digs .. it is tragic that this is your contribution to debates on how we deal with the rise of facism in this country .. i even asked you to tell us more about what worked in oldham but you did not .. you prefer your meaningless one liners

You lack a sense of irony, durutti. Furthermore, like the rest of your mates, you get touchy at the slightest thing yet, you feel that you're the only one entitled to dole out insults...while accusing others of being "nasty".

You understand what a "hypocrite is, don't you?

Maybe I should have used a but, no matter. I actually enjoy watching you thrash about like a madman.

 

[Knotted]

You lack a sense of irony, durutti. Furthermore, like the rest of your mates, you get touchy at the slightest thing yet, you feel that you're the only one entitled to dole out insults...while accusing others of being "nasty".

You understand what a "hypocrite is, don't you?

Maybe I should have used a but, no matter. I actually enjoy watching you thrash about like a madman.

So you accuse people of racism and then enjoy it when they get angry? You should find a better hobby. Stamp collecting maybe?

 

[nino_savatte]

Ha, Ha. How droll.

nino_savette will answer your point about the alleged 'racist taunt' I'm sure. Unless you have him on ignore of course?

Of course it wasn't a "racist taunt". Durutti gets touchy over the slightest remark...why? Because he has nothing concrete to support his theses, this way he can try and claim the moral high ground. Have you noticed the way that he constantly calls anyone who doesn't accept his line of argument "ignorant" or "thick"? It's an auld deflective tactic.

What these pillocks want is for me to be banned. That way, they can be free to infest this forum with their wild ideas about "tackling" immigration.

Have you noticed how none of them has produced a single shred of evidence that proves, categorically, that 'immigrants' are being housed ahead of everyone else? I don't expect them too but as someone who has worked in social housing, I know for a fact that immigrants aren't given priority and it's a myth and if any of these people actually worked in housing, they would see the same thing. I wonder if any of them are familiar with The Royal Overseas Club in Newington Green or The Parkside Hotel on Clapham Common? Just two examples of where people are being housed while they wait on the housing list....neither place could be described as salubrious either.

 

[nino_savatte]

So you accuse people of racism and then enjoy it when they get angry? You should find a better hobby. Stamp collecting maybe?

You're a joker, Knotted. I haven't accused anyone of racism. But I am going to accuse you of something: you think that you have the skills of a master debater but you're nothing but cheap shot artist.

Face it, you don;t have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Oh and your attempts at humour: don't leave your day job...which is what? Bog cleaner?

 

[Knotted]

Of course it wasn't a "racist taunt". Durutti gets touchy over the slightest remark...why? Because he has nothing concrete to support his theses, this way he can try and claim the moral high ground. Have you noticed the way that he constantly calls anyone who doesn't accept his line of argument "ignorant" or "thick"? It's an auld deflective tactic.

Your projections are beyond a joke. Do understand what a projection is? I tend to regard as something close to self-harm.

What these pillocks want is for me to be banned. That way, they can be free to infest this forum with their wild ideas about "tackling" immigration.

I don't want you banned. I want you to post on topics you either have some konwledge of or at the very least interest you in some way.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But don't start wailing when you get burnt.

 

[Knotted]

You're a joker, Knotted. I haven't accused anyone of racism. But I am going to accuse you of something: you think that you have the skills of a master debater but you're nothing but cheap shot artist.

I have made no claims about my debating skills. I have made claims about your debating skills. You need to understand that I am not you. We are different people. I don't have your character flaws. I have my own character flaws thank you very much.

Face it, you don;t have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

At the minute I'm not talking about anything. I'm dealing with the nino problem.

Oh and your attempts at humour: don't leave your day job...which is what? Bog cleaner?

I've never made any attempts at humour with you.

Anyway last word time: