Green Party's 'unapologetic, socialist broadcast'

[Tom A]

Eh? The Green Party was launched by rich ex-Tories

IIRC the Greens, at least in their previous incarnation as the Ecology Party, had some quite dodgy beliefs, such as that homosexuality was "unnatural". However this was in the 70s and 80s where such beliefs were more commonplace than today.

Also, with the Brighton "sell out" (in fact they were happy to cosy up to New Labour in Lewisham when part of a hung council between 2006 and 2010) and their warning of a "winter of discontent" if the GMB does carry out its threat to strike (see: http://union-news.co.uk/2013/04/union-anger-at-greens-winter-of-discontent-strike-jibe/), their left-wing credentials are looking rather worn around the edges.

I predict that the GPEW will follow in the footsteps of their brethren in Ireland and Germany, both of which acted as enablers of neo-liberal governments.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Rubbish piles festering on the streets of Brighton for the Greens it is then, as members affected by this wage cull are to be balloted. Refuse collectors stand to loose up to 4 grand of their annual salary.

£1.5 million spent on road signs & road markings for a 20 mph city restriction, that can't be enforced.

Kitcat, you're a spineless twat.

 

[free spirit]

That's a really useful point.

How robust is the evidence for it do you think? (beyond the bit you linked)

I'm sure I've seen something fairly convincing about it, but can't track it down now - this is the best I can find.

I can probably work out the figures for solar PV at least, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate at least in the build up period, maybe less so 20 years down the line once most of the installation work has been done.

 

[ymu]

I was challenged on this thread to some stuff I said on this thread, so I responded on this thread. Class and politics are typical enough issues to raise on threads on a message board like this, it is not as if they are totally incongruous to this thread, Greens are often accused of being "middle class" as if it is (a) true and (b) precludes sound policy.

If you believe all threads should remain absolutely and strictly on topic i suggest you take it up with the mods, not for the first time IIRC.

[Bolded bit] It does unless they are driven by a class-based analysis. You cannot prevent the abuse of power without understanding how power is abused, and very few (born and bred) middle-class people do understand that. Hence stupid flights of fancy about eco-primitivism: they can afford their acre of fertile, irrigated land and it has not occurred to them that meeting their own wants means denying others theirs. It is outside their experience.

[NB: you might want to apply this sort of analysis to why people hold you in contempt for the use of anti-semitic conspiracy sources in other arguments. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes, etc.]

I broadly agree with the Green left and I think they have been moving in the right direction over the years. But a failure to understand power relations and/or a failure to act on that analysis (helloooo SWP ) dooms them to irrelevancy and failure. It is not possible to solve the problem of an elite which abuses its power by replacing it with a different elite which also assumes the right to abuse its power.

Revolution, socialist or green, achieved through violent or democratic means, does not happen without a very large proportion of the population on board. The underlying middle-class smugness of the Greens (eg make it impossibly expensive to park before public transport is in place as an alternative ) is no more likely to achieve anything than the ideological halo-polishing and, frequently, hypocrisy in praxis of the comically narcissistic, vanguardist 'left'.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Brighton & Hove Greens are currently holding an emergency meeting - getting snippets of info from twitter & union colleague that they may hand power to the Tories!

There's a huge inter-party bun fight atm regarding the cutting of pay, & it seems the Green bubble has well & truly fuckin' burst.

 

[elbows]

That wouldnt surprise me, quite apart from any features of the Green party that may make them dodgy or susceptible to that sort of thing, now is not a good time to be in control at a local level. The budget cuts forced on them by national policies will leave them with few choices other than to take the blame for local austerity, or make a radical stand the likes of which no party that actually gets any power these days is likely to come anywhere near trying. So not surprised that they might end up passing the buck while partially self-destructing.

 

[sihhi]

So not surprised that they might end up passing the buck while partially self-destructing.

Won't passing the buck show them up for their hypocrisy as well?

 

[elbows]

Not that the Greens deserve the luxury of being able to hie completely behind the 'cuts forced on us from above line'. The entire reason why earlier in this thread I pointed out a number of their policies from their last general election manifesto is that the economic implications of them would seriously rival anything we've seen from the austerity agenda to date. 10% per year carbon cuts, abandoning GDP as a measure and talking about one-planet economics add up to a situation that, if they ever had the power to implement it, would make austerity look like a walk in the park. Even if it could be argued that such ideas were more sane and realistic considering our potential long-term environmental and energy plight, the implications for the population would be so instantly hideous as to make it incredibly unlikely that anyone would seriously attempt to do this at a pace ar ahead of what the energy picture of a given year dictates is strictly necessary and unavoidable. They'd be strung up if they tried a correction that involved instant and insane burdens for a majority of people = doom.

 

[elbows]

Won't passing the buck show them up for their hypocrisy as well?

If anything the implications of my last post are that the horror stemming from various aspects of hypocrisy pale into insignificance compared to what they claim they would attempt if actually in power at a national level. But since that isnt going to happen people are mostly going to get these glimpses of a different, more usual and boring kind of horror. The failings of greens when in a minority forced to work with others, where we end up moaning at what they are like when they must compromise and deal with other agendas. We've already seen enough of that story from tedious lib-dems, dont think the green version is going to add much that that picture of compromise or claims to be sticking to principals in a manner that is still impotent and no guard against the horrors of austerity and other foul agendas.

 

[sihhi]

Not to mention that they also speak of setting an emissions reduction target of 10% per year.

Probably nothing wrong with that as an aim provided that all of it is borne by luxury / production for the rich. I can't see this happening though.

 

[articul8]

Lucas now planning to picket her own party?:
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/08/caroline-lucas-says-shell-join-picket-against-her-own-party/

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Wildcat strike by 260 council workers today. And tomorrow.

Kitcat didn't have the fucking spine to turn up to talk to them.

May the streets & bins overfloweth with shit.

 

[krink]

more about the stoppage. my dad and brother were bin men so it makes me happy to see the fighting spirit continues. never fuck with the bin men, it's always a really really bad idea!

Tories on bikes:
https://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/brighton-workers/

 

[Tom A]

Brighton & Hove Greens are currently holding an emergency meeting - getting snippets of info from twitter & union colleague that they may hand power to the Tories!

There's a huge inter-party bun fight atm regarding the cutting of pay, & it seems the Green bubble has well & truly fuckin' burst.

About bloody time.

Now Caroline Lucas has decided to stand with the binmen, against her own party: http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/08/caroline-lucas-says-shell-join-picket-against-her-own-party

 

[ddraig]

nice one to the staff

 

[frogwoman]

About bloody time.

Now Caroline Lucas has decided to stand with the binmen, against her own party: http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/08/caroline-lucas-says-shell-join-picket-against-her-own-party

from the comments

This is the Green council whose councillors voted to cut down a tree, then campaigned to save it.

is this actually true?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Not exactly.

 

[Tom A]

Latest is that some Green councillors have tried to get Kitcat removed as leader last night, but he survived because Labour didn't support those wanting him ousted. Speaks volumes when you have to rely on allies in Labour to keep you in your cushy job, I wonder if Kitcat will end up in Labour at some point in the future, one way or another?

This could be the last chance the Greens have to prove they actually are a progressive party which listens to its rank-and-file, or are no better than what the mainstream has to offer. Either way, I see a split within the Brighton Green Party happening very soon.

 

[Tom A]

Oh and people in Brighton ARE being threatened with eviction because of the Bedroom Tax, regardless of what the Greens are telling people:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/bedroom-tax-gran-threatened-eviction-1912546

A gran has been threatened with eviction from her home of 30 years over Bedroom Tax arrears – despite a council pledge no one would lose their house.
The Sunday People can report that Maureen Pilbeam, 59, owed £177 to Brighton Council on the three-bedroom council home where she raised her five children.
She now lives alone but says the city has no one-bed flats. She was served a “Notice of Seeking Possession” giving seven days to pay eight weeks’ arrears even though the ruling Greens promised no evictions.
She said: “The house is now like a noose around my neck. All the lady at the council said was ‘this is austerity’.”
Her daughter paid the bill, but jobless Maureen says that can’t last for ever.
She is one of the first in England to face being forced out by the tax – where tenants lose an average £14 for an extra bedroom and £25 for two.

 

[butchersapron]

*little bump*