Greek elections
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Buying Time: The Delayed Crisis of Democratic Capitalism - Wolfgang Streeck
The market could be made immune from democratic correctives either through the neoliberal re-education of citizens or through the elimination of democracy on the model of 1970s Chile; the first involves an attempt to indoctrinate the public in standard economic theory, while the second is not available as things stand at present. A strategy to dispel the tension between capitalism and democracy, and to establish the long-term primacy of the market over politics, must therefore centre on incremental ‘reforms’ of political-economic institutions:29 the move towards a rule-bound economic policy, independent central banks and a fiscal policy safe from electoral outcomes; the transfer of economic policy decisions to regulatory bodies and ‘committees of experts’; and debt ceilings enshrined in the constitution that are legally binding on governments for decades to come, if not forever. In the course of this, the states of advanced capitalism are to be constructed in such a way that they earn the enduring trust of the owners and movers of capital, by giving credible guarantees at the level of policy and institutions that they will not intervene in ‘the economy’ – or that, if they do, it will only be to protect and enforce market justice in the shape of suitable returns on capital investments. A precondition for this is the neutralization of democracy, in the sense of the social democracy of postwar capitalism, and the successful completion of a programme of Hayekian liberalization.
In their rhetoric and ideational policy, the champions of market justice seek to gain the upper hand by denouncing social justice as ‘political’ (in the sense of particularist) and therefore as dirty or corrupt. In contrast, it is claimed that market justice, with its ostensible impersonality and price-theoretical calculability, functions in accordance with universalist principles, in a ‘clean’ manner in the sense of untouched by politics. Such distinctions and equations have long entered deep into everyday language: the statement that something was decided ‘politically’ is often enough to make it appear that the aim was to enrich some defined interest group.30 Capitalist PR experts tirelessly hawk around the view that, whereas markets distribute according to general rules, politics does so with an eye to power and connections. The fact that markets, in assessing efficiency and allocating rewards, disregard the initial endowment that participants bring to them can be ignored more easily than redistributive policies, which must be publicly debated and actively implemented. Also, policy decisions can be attributed to particular individuals or institutions, which can therefore be held accountable for them, whereas market judgements – especially if the market is assumed to be a state of nature – seem to fall from the sky without human intervention and have to be accepted as a fate behind which lurks a higher meaning intelligible only to experts
The market could be made immune from democratic correctives either through the neoliberal re-education of citizens or through the elimination of democracy on the model of 1970s Chile; the first involves an attempt to indoctrinate the public in standard economic theory, while the second is not available as things stand at present. A strategy to dispel the tension between capitalism and democracy, and to establish the long-term primacy of the market over politics, must therefore centre on incremental ‘reforms’ of political-economic institutions:29 the move towards a rule-bound economic policy, independent central banks and a fiscal policy safe from electoral outcomes; the transfer of economic policy decisions to regulatory bodies and ‘committees of experts’; and debt ceilings enshrined in the constitution that are legally binding on governments for decades to come, if not forever. In the course of this, the states of advanced capitalism are to be constructed in such a way that they earn the enduring trust of the owners and movers of capital, by giving credible guarantees at the level of policy and institutions that they will not intervene in ‘the economy’ – or that, if they do, it will only be to protect and enforce market justice in the shape of suitable returns on capital investments. A precondition for this is the neutralization of democracy, in the sense of the social democracy of postwar capitalism, and the successful completion of a programme of Hayekian liberalization.
In their rhetoric and ideational policy, the champions of market justice seek to gain the upper hand by denouncing social justice as ‘political’ (in the sense of particularist) and therefore as dirty or corrupt. In contrast, it is claimed that market justice, with its ostensible impersonality and price-theoretical calculability, functions in accordance with universalist principles, in a ‘clean’ manner in the sense of untouched by politics. Such distinctions and equations have long entered deep into everyday language: the statement that something was decided ‘politically’ is often enough to make it appear that the aim was to enrich some defined interest group.30 Capitalist PR experts tirelessly hawk around the view that, whereas markets distribute according to general rules, politics does so with an eye to power and connections. The fact that markets, in assessing efficiency and allocating rewards, disregard the initial endowment that participants bring to them can be ignored more easily than redistributive policies, which must be publicly debated and actively implemented. Also, policy decisions can be attributed to particular individuals or institutions, which can therefore be held accountable for them, whereas market judgements – especially if the market is assumed to be a state of nature – seem to fall from the sky without human intervention and have to be accepted as a fate behind which lurks a higher meaning intelligible only to experts
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MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
I agree but I don't think it was just that. I'd add Varoufakis' misplaced faith in the other members to come round to the possibility of changing the nature of the Eurozone into something more fluid and capable of sustaining the differences between the different countries. It was never nothing more than financial colonialism.
I'm hoping (against hope) that words like "capitulation" in the headlines are hyperbolic and the Greek government has come from the negotiations with something that gives them enough room to prepare for a future Grexit. At the same time, though, I can't see how that could be possible if the economic strangling continues unabated.
... and what will happen to left (in Greece and elsewhere) is not going to be pretty either. Perhaps my usual thoughts in the matter are correct. It will have to get seriously ugly before... well, anything.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't read too much into that. Other sources are saying the same of the Eu parties. I reckon both sides have agreed to show they're climbing down to save one anothers face.
My guess is that the pressure form the US has put the shits up both parties
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MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Don't you just want to strnagle these bastards? How convenient to be able to de facto do away with the Stability and Growth Pact as well as silence the European Commission when it suits Germany or France, innit?
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ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
By the way, what happened to all the Nazis after Golden Dawn were outlawed? They've been rather quiet recently. 
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
By the way, what happened to all the Nazis after Golden Dawn were outlawed? They've been rather quiet recently.
They were never outlawed, despite their elected representatives being sent to prison they are the third largest party in Greece following this year's election.
If I were one of them I would be very excited about this acquiescence.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
actually, better news than the alternative.
had there been no deal - not that this means there is a deal - then by the end of next week you'd have seen a European state with people queuing round the block for the most basic groceries, and paying for them with a currency so devalued that it would rival the Zimbabwean Dollar in its by-the-wheelbarrow, toilet-paper-quality (the 100 Billion Drachma note becoming a collectors item in time..), and military cargo aircraft from other European states bringing such extravagancies as food and medicines.
i invite you to consider what impressions Mr and Mrs Average of Average Street, Europe, would take away from those every-night-for-a-month news reports about the wisdom of voting for far-left political parties that tell them they can shake up European economics...
if there is a deal that keeps Greece both in the Euro and with cash - however unpleasant its other effects - other left groups will still be able to put forward a vision, but point to the failures and errors of Syriza as to why it didn't happen in Greece. if there is no deal, then that vision will look a lot like the hell that gets beamed into everyones tv each night, and voters will react accordingly.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
There is, and for years has been, a humanitarian crisis already. Default and exit from the Euro would have at least ensured that there would be an end to that one day. Now the screw will be turned and there will be even more pensioners rummaging through bins for food, even more suicides and if the mainstream force which was advocating a social democratic anti-austerity platform loses legitimacy then you will see the streets go up in flames. In the media in other countries of course this will all be blamed on the 'radical left' Syriza government and some vague notion that the Greek government has always been socialist, it won't be seen as a continuation of the hell which successive neoliberal governments have put the Greek people through.
I only hope that opposition to the bailout stays with the left, because if not it won't be To Potami who benefits, it will be Golden Dawn.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
And from his 2014 "How will capitalism end?" piece in the NLR...
Capitalism and democracy had long been considered adversaries, until the postwar settlement seemed to have accomplished their reconciliation. Well into the twentieth century, owners of capital had been afraid of democratic majorities abolishing private property, while workers and their organizations expected capitalists to finance a return to authoritarian rule in defence of their privileges. Only in the Cold War world did capitalism and democracy seem to become aligned with one another, as economic progress made it possible for working-class majorities to accept a free-market, private-property regime, in turn making it appear that democratic freedom was inseparable from, and indeed depended on, the freedom of markets and profit-making. Today, however, doubts about the compatibility of a capitalist economy with a democratic polity have powerfully returned. Among ordinary people, there is now a pervasive sense that politics can no longer make a difference in their lives, as reflected in common perceptions of deadlock, incompetence and corruption among what seems an increasingly self-contained and self-serving political class, united in their claim that ‘there is no alternative’ to them and their policies. One result is declining electoral turnout combined with high voter volatility, producing ever greater electoral fragmentation, due to the rise of ‘populist’ protest parties, and pervasive government instability.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Streeck's stuff needs to be spread as widely as possible....
A central topic of current anti-democratic rhetoric is the fiscal crisis of the contemporary state, as reflected in the astonishing increase in public debt since the 1970s (Figure 4, below). Growing public indebtedness is put down to electoral majorities living beyond their means by exploiting their societies’ ‘common pool’, and to opportunistic politicians buying the support of myopic voters with money they do not have. [9] However, that the fiscal crisis was unlikely to have been caused by an excess of redistributive democracy can be seen from the fact that the buildup of government debt coincided with a decline in electoral participation, especially at the lower end of the income scale, and marched in lockstep with shrinking unionization, the disappearance of strikes, welfare-state cutbacks and exploding income inequality. What the deterioration of public finances wasrelated to was declining overall levels of taxation (Figure 5) and the increasingly regressive character of tax systems, as a result of ‘reforms’ of top income and corporate tax rates (Figure 6). Moreover, by replacing tax revenue with debt, governments contributed further to inequality, in that they offered secure investment opportunities to those whose money they would or could no longer confiscate and had to borrow instead. Unlike taxpayers, buyers of government bonds continue to own what they pay to the state, and in fact collect interest on it, typically paid out of ever less progressive taxation; they can also pass it on to their children. Moreover, rising public debt can be and is being utilized politically to argue for cutbacks in state spending and for privatization of public services, further constraining redistributive democratic intervention in the capitalist economy.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Yeah right, a European Union member in Armageddon mode and you wouldn't even ask yourself what the union in European Union actually means whilst throwing a family member to the dogs & smugly wiping your arse with the drachma, sneering how it was all the lefts fault.
Sounds like a global PR campaign that a German led Europe really needs and no doubt do bmw exports no end of good.
1. What's the average street in Europe?
2. Which hell on tv every night?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Proposals are leaking, looks like an almost complete acceptance of the creditors demands 
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
at what cost to the creditors?Proposals are leaking, looks like an almost complete acceptance of the creditors demands
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Doesn't seem to be any mention in the submitted document. I think that is a parallel proposal, but who knows?
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Well there wouldn't be. That wasn't their condition to make. That has to come from the creditors in the negotiations.
Depends - the two sides need to be weighed up. If the crippling effects of hyper interest repayments have been removed then... Deal or No Deal (?)
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Do you think they will have major resurgence if syriza fails?, though you do say they are still the third largest party.
gosub
~#
Proposals are leaking, looks like an almost complete acceptance of the creditors demands
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
Then there is a good chance of getting that through the national parliaments in time
, countries like Finland have been hawkish for months- and the deal needs an absolute majority there. Tspiras has achieved more than I thought he would, yep they've made sure he has turbulent water, but he's got acceptance that 185% of GDP debt is unserviceable, even a tacit admission from Schaeuable, even some numbers from the IMF - though their chief economist moronically claimed that debt relief won't be on the IMF section of the debt. That's what Tspiras has got to the table, and he has done it without Greece turning on itself [Yet]. The stoicism shown by the Greeks is another thing that has been admirable, even if now, back to business as usual and the politicians exploit it for their own ends - but thats true the world over, not least in Germany, where all being well, they ain't got rid of you and have now to argue how much of their money is written off. not an easy ride for Mrs Merkel either.
not-bono-ever
meh
Proposals are leaking, looks like an almost complete acceptance of the creditors demands
http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals
Theres alot of sovereign legal changes required and privatisation involved with that document, lots of mentions of liberalisation & competition
gosub
~#
If it goes through, I hope it will for Joe Public's sake, they sunk Le Pen.
