Greek elections

[Sunray]

Why do you say that? Is there some polling on the Gref?

http://www.theguardian.com/business...rs-consider-next-moves-after-imf-default-live

Choosing a rock over the hard place.

Moving to the Drachma might destabilise other nations because they have provided loans such as mortgages in Euros. If the drachma was worth say 1/10 of the Euro those loans would be impossible to pay back for normal people in their life time, so sensibly they will default.

 

[J Ed]

Depressing.

Where now for Syriza and Greece?

 

[butchersapron]

There's been some, not much - certainly not enough to draw the above definitive conclusion - none of it points to a clear yes.

 

[J Ed]

This acceptance could also, I guess, be part of a strategy to try and expose the proposals for what they are - a way of getting rid of Syriza no matter the cost. Assuming they don't call Syriza's bluff it would make the Troika appear even less reasonable.

 

[ska invita]

Depressing.

Where now for Syriza and Greece?

 

[butchersapron]

That's what, about the fourth time letters have turned up over the last months which certain quarters insist means 'Greek' capitulation. yet they never quite seem to.

 

[belboid]

This acceptance could also, I guess, be part of a strategy to try and expose the proposals for what they are - a way of getting rid of Syriza no matter the cost. Assuming they don't call Syriza's bluff it would make the Troika appear even less reasonable.

If we're generous, that would appear right. If we're less generous, it would seem Tsipras is desperate to get the new bailout and will sacrifice vast amounts to get it. I'd be a little doubtful about whether he could get this proposal through his own parliament without splitting Syriza, which would incline me to view 1, but it's bloody hard to tell.

 

[belboid]

a trip to the south downs???

 

[belboid]

And Germany tells Greece to fuck off

 

[gosub]

And Germany tells Greece to fuck off

Not Greece, Tspiras.

 

[ska invita]

a trip to the south downs???

they deserve a a holiday tbf

this week is going to be the classic 'a week is a long time in politics'

 

[belboid]

Not Greece, Tspiras.

 

[butchersapron]

Not Greece, Tspiras.

Nice of them to decide that for the greek people isn't it?

 

[pocketscience]

That's what, about the fourth time letters have turned up over the last months which certain quarters insist means 'Greek' capitulation. yet they never quite seem to.

it always seems it's schauble that rejects it
eta belboid saw it first:

• And here comes German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble to poor some cold water on things:

• 01-Jul-2015 10:46:58 - GERMANY’S SCHAEUBLE SAYS NOTHING CHANGED IN FACT THAT THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT BETWEEN GREECE, CREDITORS BY MIDNIGHT

• 01-Jul-2015 10:51:07 - GERMANY’S SCHAEUBLE SAYS OLD EFSF PROGRAMME FOR GREECE HAS EXPIRED, NOW A NEW ESM PROGRAMME WOULD BE NEEDED WITH DIFFERENT CONDITIONS

• 01-Jul-2015 10:52:35 - GERMANY’S SCHAEUBLE SAYS THERE IS NO BASIS TO HAVE SERIOUS NEGOTIATIONS WITH GREECE AT MOMENT

• 01-Jul-2015 10:52:57 - GERMANY’S SCHAEUBLE SAYS GREECE HAS TO MAKE CLEAR WHAT IT WANTS

 

[belboid]

it always seems it's schauble that rejects it

well, he is their Yanis

 

[gosub]

I seriously think a new Greek Prime Minister would get offered better terms than a man who has taken his country past the brink.

 

[kebabking]

it always seems it's schauble that rejects it.

good cop, bad cop.

in this case bad cop goes shoots from the hip, good cop presents a more considered view and eventually, after much soul-searching, comes to the same view as bad cop.

it probably is personal at this stage, if the EuroGroup have taken the view that this - and the previous - have just been a lot of fluff for domestic political consumption, then they'll react accordingly.

 

[J Ed]

I seriously think a new Greek Prime Minister would get offered better terms than a man who has taken his country past the brink.

You are an idiot. Seriously, wtf.

 

[belboid]

I seriously think a new Greek Prime Minister would get offered better terms than a man who has taken his country past the brink.

lol. Any other PM would have completely collapsed and given them everything they wanted. You have absolutely nothing to back up your view, other than an apparent hatred of Tsipras.

 

[gosub]

You are an idiot. Seriously, wtf.

relationship has broken down, they want rid. If he stays the creditors are within their rights to point out he's not actually standing on the cliff any more. Someone else and there is scope for row back

 

[J Ed]

lol. Any other PM would have completely collapsed and given them everything they wanted. You have absolutely nothing to back up your view, other than an apparent hatred of Tsipras.

Personality politics of goodies and baddies buffeted by a stream of propaganda is what seems to inform a lot of people who feel that the world needs the benefit of their wisdom.

 

[belboid]

relationship has broken down, they want rid. If he stays the creditors are within their rights to point out he's not actually standing on the cliff any more. Someone else and there is scope for row back

who? Varoufakis? Someone else from Syriza? Seriously, who?

 

[J Ed]

relationship has broken down, they want rid. If he stays the creditors are within their rights to point he's not actually standing on the cliff any more. Someone else and there is scope for row back

Well, there are Greek politicians who would be willing to take on the unsustainable debt but the Greek people have not elected those people no matter how much the EU wishes they had.

 

[belboid]

Another address from Tsipras coming up shortly

 

[kebabking]

Another address from Tsipras coming up shortly

if he announces that Greece will accept the terms of a third(?) bailout as required by the EuroGroup, and is not resigning, will he still be PM by next wednesday?

 

[brogdale]

Hmmmm

 

[belboid]

if he announces that Greece will accept the terms of a third(?) bailout as required by the EuroGroup, and is not resigning, will he still be PM by next wednesday?

the third bailout he asked for and the troika have just rejected?

 

[newbie]

lol. Any other PM would have completely collapsed and given them everything they wanted. You have absolutely nothing to back up your view, other than an apparent hatred of Tsipras.

I understood gosub to be talking about now and the immediate future, not the past. They are where they are. Tsipras has pushed it to the point where troika relief about someone more compliant taking over could lead to a softening of their stance, with concessions offered that are not on offer to the current government.

As a theory it's plausible, possibly even likely given changed circumstances that will have become evident by the time someone else is in place.

If I was Greek, and had some clue as to the personalities who might fill the role, it's something I'd have in mind, even though I'd vote with Syriza.

 

[kebabking]

the third bailout he asked for and the troika have just rejected?

so whats he going on tv for then?

 

[butchersapron]

To cancel the referendum?