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Greek elections

No more. I don't know whether it's anti democratic or not. I don't care. I do care however when at every possible juncture the is some technical pedantry that derails the thread. I don't know whether you are on a one man mission to destroy the monothought clique or are just bored at work, but it's
so.
fucking.
tiresome.

Give it a rest
 
Pomposity reigns free again.

Two of the most self-regarding posters on this forum or probably any other fora take off and reach for the skies...

Yeah, it's always other people.

Please stop fucking up this thread.

Do some 'magic circle' work instead; I'm sure your firm would be appalled at you wasting their time like this, and the content of your posts.
 
Another quick passage from Streeck's book, does fit in with was briefly touched on above - apologies for length, but it really does put it all nicely:


It is neither possible nor necessary to discuss here in detail the rush of new regulations, institutions and instruments that the European Council has negotiated and decided upon since the beginning of the crisis. Less than three months separated the coming into force on 13 December 2011 of the ‘sixpack’ – six European laws to reform the Maastricht stability and growth pact – and the signing of the European Fiscal Pact on 2 March 2012. Additional rule changes, going ever further beyond the powers assigned by the treaties to the bodies of the EU, were under active preparation in summer 2012. The tendency has for a long time been the same:

1) Guidelines for the fiscal policy of member-states are becoming more and more detailed. Their observance is required in return for any rescue measures by the European ‘community of states’, and particularly for its willingness, under the pressure of market threats, to mutualize public and private credit risks.

2) National governments are under ever tighter obligations to press ahead with the market-conforming reconstruction of their economic, social and legal orders. For example, in line with the German model, they must incorporate debt ceilings into their constitution. They must also find ways of adapting their wage formation systems to macroeconomic stability goals defined by the EU, and must for this purpose be prepared to ‘reform’ their national institutions, if necessary against the resistance of their citizens and without regard for either national rights to free collective bargaining or the limits of the jurisdiction of European-level institutions.

3) Equally important are the areas in which the new EU statutes refrain from interfering in the autonomy of member-states. No provisions stipulate a minimum level of taxation, such as would limit fiscal competition within the single market.27 This keeps up the tradition of the European Monetary Union, whose convergence and admission criteria contained nothing about a maximum tolerable level of unemployment or social inequality.

4) EU institutions, whether already existing or still to be built, get ever more far-reaching rights to oversee the economic, social and fiscal policies of member-states, even prospectively and in matters before national parliaments. The body with the greatest powers at European level is the Commission; the Council, representing the democratically legitimated member-states, takes only second place, with some kind of veto right, often on the condition of unanimity.

5) The penalties that the EU can impose on member-states for failing to observe its rules are growing larger. Enforcement procedures have an increasingly judicial form and are automatically started, with less and less scope for discretionary political decisions.

6) The national and European regulations that are supposed to determine the economic and fiscal policies of member-states are to be formulated in such a way as to be valid forever, protecting them from being changed by new political majorities.

7) Lastly, in the event of non-compliance by a member-state, it is increasingly demanded that Brussels, in particular the Commission or the Court of Justice, get the power to act on behalf of the respective national state and take decisions for it and in its place to ensure conformity with the requirements of the market.

The direction in which this is heading is clear from a speech that Jens Weidmann, the president of the Bundesbank (who before this had been the chancellor’s closest economic policy adviser), gave in Mannheim on 14 June 2012. At a key point he remarked:

In the event that a country does not keep to the budgetary rules, national sovereignty would automatically pass to the EU level to the extent necessary for the targets to be reached … One example might be the right to implement – and not simply demand – tax increases or proportionate spending cuts … Within such a framework, the EU level could secure the path to consolidation, even if no majority can be found in the national parliament concerned.

Fuck that shit. We've got to get out, before it's too late.
 
'Debate', if that's what you want, involves both sides of an argument being proposed. I've put mine; you've just spouted some sub sixth-form questions. By all means explain to us how the bodies and institutions of the EU are 'democratic'.

Otherwise do consider SingTFU.

I have disagreed with you.

Apparently, on your view, this is so beneath you, so base, so outrageous that you do not view it as a debate.
 
Yeah, it's always other people.

Please stop fucking up this thread.

Do some 'magic circle' work instead; I'm sure your firm would be appalled at you wasting their time like this, and the content of your posts.

Lovely bit of sneering pomposity again.
 
Lovely bit of sneering pomposity again.

Take it as a bit of advice, then. Because, one day, you'll piss off the wrong person with this tiresome bullshit, and someone will inform your firm about your posts here (frequency during work hours and content), which could land you in a lot hot water - a magic circle firm wouldn't think twice about cutting a junior lawyer loose to protect its reputation.
 
Take it as a bit of advice, then. Because, one day, you'll piss off the wrong person with this tiresome bullshit, and someone will inform your firm about your posts here (frequency during work hours and content), which could land you in a lot hot water - a magic circle firm wouldn't think twice about cutting a junior lawyer loose to protect its reputation.

Wonderfully indirect passive aggressive threats.

You are quite a piece of work Athos.
 
Wonderfully indirect passive aggressive threats.

You are quite a piece of work Athos.

It's not a threat; that sort of thing isn't my style. But you're making lots of enemies here, by consistently damaging something many people care about. You should reflect on what the consequences of that might be. That's all.
 
"Someday someone's going to work out who you are and you will get sacked"

And you clearly relish the thought...

Not particularly. But I'd relish the thought of you not being quite such such a dick, having reflected on how easy it would be for someone to do so.
 
Please explain in detail how the appointment of the European Commission is not subject to democratic mandates.

Has there ever been a case where a government has sought and won election based, even in part, on who it would appoint as an EU Commissioner?
 
Not particularly. But I'd relish the thought of you not being quite such such a dick, having reflected on how easy it would be for someone to do so.

Right...

So your sentiment is more - "conform to how I want you to behave and, if not, I would expect you to lose your job"
 
Right...

So your sentiment is more - "conform to how I want you to behave and, if not, I would expect you to lose your job"

No. My sentiment is "be careful, because, one day, you acting the dick might wind someone up enough to report you to your firm, which is likely to have consequences for you". You can take that advice, or leave it.
 
I have disagreed with you.

Apparently, on your view, this is so beneath you, so base, so outrageous that you do not view it as a debate.
No, I asked specifically for you to attempt to demonstrate that the bodies and institutions of, and associated with, the EU are 'democratic'.

Is it that you can't do this or don't want to do this?
 
No, I asked specifically for you to attempt to demonstrate that the bodies and institutions of, and associated with, the EU are 'democratic'.

Is it that you can't do this or don't want to do this?

Is the Commission democratic and, if not, why?

Is the European Parliament democratic and, if not, why?

Is the Council of the EU democratic and, if not, why?

Is the European Council democratic and, if not, why?
 
No. My sentiment is "be careful, because, one day, you acting the dick might wind someone up enough to report you to your firm, which is likely to have consequences for you". You can take that advice, or leave it.

Because you care so dearly about my prospects...

How generous.
 
Why are you being a dick, diamond? I'm trying to read this thread, keep up with and understand the situation in Greece and its wider consequences. Urban is and has always been very good at helping my understanding of the world, I learn as much, if not more here than I do from reading books and articles. Why are you trying to smear shit all over it with a level type questions? Start another thread if you wanna discuss just how democratic or undemocratic the self pronounced democratic institutions of Europe are.
 
Is the Commission democratic and, if not, why?

Is the European Parliament democratic and, if not, why?

Is the Council of the EU democratic and, if not, why?

Is the European Council democratic and, if not, why?

The only one of those dealing directly with Greece, as part of the troika, is the commission. Would you care to explain how you feel the commission is a 'democratic' institution? Clearly, even you would not seek to argue that the two other bodies are in any way 'democratic'?

Are you going to answer that, or just keep up this little displacement game?
 
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