'Go to Ethiopia to kill'

[J Ed]

Perhaps anti-racism is a stance for you; about political correctness and a good lefty education. Something you can drop or ignore if it's not convenient.

For me, it's not. I still feel the hurt even while totally supporting what he was doing. This isn't about telling the man himself of his incorrect position. But it's revealing to see who thinks this isn't a reasonable thing to consider here on this bulletin board.

Ok.

Israel is a European settler colonial state, over time while that European settler colonial state has expanded to include Jews from other areas of the world including Ethiopia it remains a settler colonial state which is racist and displaces and subjugates the Arab population which is indigenous to the area which it occupies. Asking why the man with the gun is there, the representative of that settler colonial state, and pointing that gun at him is not a bigoted question it is a rhetorical device used to question the legitimacy of violence which is enforcing an illegal occupation.

The reason people are sceptical of the fact that you are bringing it up in the first place is that what you are doing here is used often used to legitimise violence against peoples, especially peoples seen as 'backwards'.

You also seem to be reducing racism merely to 'bad words' and stripping them of all context. Stripped of all context I suppose you could see 'Yanqui go home' as a xenophobic microaggression (or whatever) but you would have to be a real idiot to accuse the Cuban or Vietnamese people of that for repeating that slogan.

 

[Sirena]

If you need to ask that question you shouldn't be posting on a forum..

That's not good enough. Why this clip and why your cherry-picking question? What is your motive?

 

[ViolentPanda]

There may also be a historical/mythical angle to what the chap said, given the belief in some Muslim and Jewish circles (not in local Christian myth, though, as far as I know) that Moses and co stopped off there before moving on across the red sea to the land of milk and honey, it might have been an ironic take on "fuck off home and kill your own people, you Johnny-come-latelies".

 

[YouSir]

Mation don't give the wannabe bully boys the time of day, seriously. Fuck them off. Fuck their leading questions, fuck their attempts to say your opinion based on experience and knowledge doesn't matter. Fuck their attempts to laud it over you by throwing around words like 'rational' and suggesting that your emotions are at play here and not theirs. They don't care what this man thinks and why, they just want to be 'right' and undermine you. They are building the same ivory towers that that those in power do, the agenda is thick as treacle, the difference is the only power they actually have is that which they imagine, here on Urban, it's a unfunny joke.

Actually I just wasn't sure what was meant by the Ethiopia reference. Israel, Judaism and Zionism all have a relation to it, there are Ethiopian Jews, Ethiopians in Israel and a huge amount I don't know about Palestinian culture or what the old lad was thinking or talking about. Which is why I asked what it was all about. But thank you for sticking your boot sized opinion in, appreciate it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Could someone explain what makes it racist? Is he saying "go to Ethiopia to kill" just because Ethiopia is far away (so just do this somewhere else), or because the soldiers actually were Ethiopian-Israelis, or because he just hates Ethiopians? Or is there some other historical context?

None of us know for sure is the point. We are speculating. It's just awful from all angles, the things he has to witness, suffer and endure, and the ways in which those things can produce hate/prejudice.

 

[Treacle Toes]

That's not good enough. Why this clip and why your cherry-picking question? What is your motive?

Maybe she doesn't know why he might say something like that and it surprised her? Why is that hard to believe?

 

[Thora]

None of us know for sure is the point. We are speculating. It's just awful from all angles, the things he has to witness, suffer and endure, and the ways in which those things can produce hate/prejudice.

Is it necessarily coming from a place of hate/prejudice though?

 

[YouSir]

Is it necessarily coming from a place of hate/prejudice though?

Came on this thread trying to figure that out, no luck so far, just lots of grandstanding and swearing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ok.

Israel is a European settler colonial state, over time while that European settler colonial state has expanded to include Jews from other areas of the world including Ethiopia it remains a settler colonial state which is racist and displaces and subjugates the Arab population which is indigenous to the area which it occupies. Asking why the man with the gun is there, the representative of that settler colonial state, and pointing that gun at him is not a bigoted question it is a rhetorical device used to question the legitimacy of violence which is enforcing an illegal occupation.

The reason people are sceptical of the fact that you are bringing it up in the first place is that what you are doing here is used often used to legitimise violence against peoples, especially peoples seen as 'backwards'.

You also seem to be reducing racism merely to 'bad words' and stripping them of all context. Stripped of all context I suppose you could see 'Yanqui go home' as a xenophobic microaggression (or whatever) but you would have to be a real idiot to accuse the Cuban or Vietnamese people of that for repeating that slogan.

Small correction. There have been small numbers (relatively) of Jews in the area since the Diaspora. Some of the Jews in the original geographical area (before it was carved up over and again, then finally by Sykes-Picot) could probably trace their time on the land back to Moses. It just so happens that Moses and the tribes didn't find an empty land, as they claimed. Not every Jew in the current state of Israel is a European immigrant, or US blow-in zealot.

 

[andysays]

Mation don't give the wannabe bully boys the time of day, seriously. Fuck them off. Fuck their leading questions, fuck their attempts to say your opinion based on experience and knowledge doesn't matter. Fuck their attempts to laud it over you by throwing around words like 'rational' and suggesting that your emotions are at play here and not theirs. They don't care what this man thinks and why, they just want to be 'right' and undermine you. They are building the same ivory towers that that those in power do, the agenda is thick as treacle, the difference is the only power they actually have is that which they imagine, here on Urban, it's a unfunny joke.

Again, unless you can back this up (and so far far you've made zero attempt to do so), this is all just hollow bullshit.

Unless you can explain how your or anyone's "opinion based on experience and knowledge" can be justified as immediately and unfailingly giving you the answer to what's happening in this specific situation, based on the most flimsy amount of information, and no attempt to form any sort of argument or chain of reasoning, you are (yet again in your case, I'm afraid) jumping from your emotional reaction to a catagoric statement about what this statement meant and how we should all define it and react to it.

There's nothing wrong with having an emotional response, or in including that in your argument, but simply to assert that something is (generally) bad because it makes you (specifically) feel bad, without any attempt to construct an argument or give any reasons, and then to complain that people who question that are asking leading questions, attempting to say anyone's opinion doesn't matter, attempting to laud it over anyone, just want to be 'right' and undermine anyone, etc, etc, is utterly childish nonsense and is contrary to any genuine discussion.

I've come to expect nothing more from you, unfortunately, but I'm sure that Mation is capable of better, so just because you're not prepared to engage, please don't try to prevent others from doing so.

 

[keybored]

It's lord ffs...

 

[Treacle Toes]

I've come to expect nothing more from you, unfortunately, but I'm sure that Mation is capable of better, so just because you're not prepared to engage, please don't try to prevent others from doing so.

Manipulative and condescending as ever. Your attempts at comparing Mation and I are laughable too. You are not smart enough to divide and manipulate in this way, much as you will try. You replicate the same structures/dynamics that seek to undermine and divide us all. You position yourself outside of them, invisible and logical. Who could possibly disagree? Transparent and a waste of time.

 

[YouSir]

Negligible amounts of information, personal grudges, sensitive subject and endless scope for expansion. This one'll run and run.

 

[frogwoman]

Tbf i can well understand why people might be offended by that as its implying that ethiopian/african etc lives matter less than his. Not sure that attacking rutita and mation and saying their totally wrong to be bothered by what this guy says is a great way to go about things

Have a think about why

 

[moon]

That's not good enough. Why this clip and why your cherry-picking question? What is your motive?

What would your preferred answer be?

 

[Sirena]

What would your preferred answer be?

You see it is a propaganda trick, favoured by neo-conservatives, not to address the major issue but to side-track into micro-analysis of a supposed fault.

So, for instance, you might be trying to divert attention from the plight of the Palestinians and the shameful brutality of the Israelis by shifting the focus onto one presumed incident of 'racism' by a Palestinian.

That's why I was asking why you picked that one tiny phrase out of a whole situation. And presumably that's why you dodged the answer.

 

[Treacle Toes]

You see it is a propaganda trick, favoured by neo-conservatives, not to address the major issue but to side-track into micro-analysis of a supposed fault.

So, for instance, you might be trying to divert attention from the plight of the Palestinians and the shameful brutality of the Israelis by shifting the focus onto one presumed incident of 'racism' by a Palestinian.

That's why I was asking why you picked that one tiny phrase out of a whole situation. And presumably that's why you dodged the answer.

That is a good point Sirena and more than important to point out. I am however curious as to why you imagine moon has fallen for it. Not really her posting style IME, which is why I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

There is a point in what moon has posted IME...some people really have never experienced these aspects of inter-cultural/nationality prejudice and who amongst us knows everything about why/how they exist everywhere?

Don't mean to patronise you moon or answer for you...

 

[Sirena]

That is a good point Sirena and more than important to point out. I am however curious as to why you imagine moon has fallen for it. Not really her posting style IME, which is why I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

There is a point in what moon has posted IME...some people really have never experienced these aspects of inter-cultural/nationality prejudice and who amongst us knows everything about why/how they exist everywhere?

Don't mean to patronise you moon or answer for you...

I think you're a sensible woman so I shall be guided by you and I'm sorry if I badgered an innocent Moon...

 

[LiamO]

Enough of this bolloxology. There is a video doing the rounds on FB tonight of a 14-year old Palestinian child, shot... lying there in his own blood, choking and coughing and whimpering... pleading for help... and left to bleed out by the plethora of cops, soldiers and ambulancemen standing watching him... whilst a group of 'Settlers' laugh, cheer and shout "Die, die, you son of a bitch... die".

And you fuckin jokers want to call out some brave old Palestinian geezer who, in the midst of facing down 6 fully-armed and decidedly twitchy Israeli soldiers, said something that may be considered 'racist'? Catch yerselves on FFS.

Video here. Mohammed Matter | Facebook. Don't watch it if you want to sleep tonight. I couldn't/wouldn't watch all the way through

 

[campanula]

No, not just getting irate about supposed racist words but putting yourself in the frame as an equivalent and outraged victim, insisting on fragile emotional states, calling others bullies and absolutely prancing all over some imaginary moral high ground - that is what is distasteful to me. Whilst I am normally sympathetic to the hurts inflicted on those who are whipped by the racist tongue, I just cannot get terribly upset about an out of context statement.

 

[DownwardDog]

Negligible amounts of information, personal grudges, sensitive subject and endless scope for expansion. This one'll run and run.

A racist palestinian is always going to be tricky for Urbz as he would have to be simultaneously venerated and condemned. It's like that episode of Trek where JTK destroys the sentient computer by pointing out some logical paradox.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Enough of this bolloxology. There is a video doing the rounds on FB tonight of a 14-year old Palestinian child, shot... lying there in his own blood, choking and coughing and whimpering... pleading for help... and left to bleed out by the plethora of cops, soldiers and ambulancemen standing watching him... whilst a group of 'Settlers' laugh, cheer and shout "Die, die, you son of a bitch... die".

And you fuckin jokers want to call out some brave old Palestinian geezer who, in the midst of facing down 6 fully-armed and decidedly twitchy Israeli soldiers, said something that may be considered 'racist'? Catch yerselves on FFS.

Video here. Mohammed Matter | Facebook. Don't watch it if you want to sleep tonight. I couldn't/wouldn't watch all the way through

I saw the video at the weekend, I couldn't watch all of the way through either.It's fucking awful, it's beyond that, there aren't words that fit the fucking awful it is.

I not sure anyone wants to call him out in the way you suggest though. His suffering and circumstance is something most of us will never fathom because we aren't him and don't have to see and experience those things. Or when we do it's at a distance. Like you we can choose to acknowledge them by watching videos or not, reading news stories or not, going to Palestine or not.

The OP wanted to talk about what he said and why. I don't know if she has seen this video and knows the full context.

 

[Treacle Toes]

A racist palestinian is always going to be tricky for Urbz as he would have to be simultaneously venerated and condemned. It's like that episode of Trek where JTK destroys the sentient computer by pointing out some logical paradox.

Actually that 'paradox' as you call it has been pointed out in the discussion. No one's laughing here.There are no winners. Which is the point.

 

[Mation]

Can you explain why you think it's a terrible thing to have said?

It seems to me mainly like a bizarre thing to have said. I would therefore be very wary about ascribing any particular meaning to it and judging it as terrible or anything else with any certainty.

There may well be some context I'm unaware of, but what it sounded like was that he was telling people who kill to go and do their killing elsewhere; don't kill us, kill them. I think that's a terrible thing to say. But as I said earlier, it wouldn't stop me supporting him. Note that I'm talking about it here, rather than trying to tell him about it.

You know, I don't really care. He is telling the soldiers not to kill children. Over and over, he's telling the soldiers not to kill children. And that's important because that's what the IDF do.

And some twat picks out one little phrase that's not clear and tries to swing the whole thing into the fact that he's some sort of racist and (presumably) therefore deserving of everything he gets....

Not at all. In any way, whatsoever.

That's not good enough. Why this clip and why your cherry-picking question? What is your motive?

If you spend a lifetime as the recipient of racism, you are sensitive to it whenever it occurs and whenever something brings it to mind. If you're not the recipient of it, it's probably easier to ignore.

Whilst I am normally sympathetic to the hurts inflicted on those who are whipped by the racist tongue, I just cannot get terribly upset about an out of context statement.

My guess is that it's this kind of response, rather than the man and what he said that prompted moon to do the thread. No one is asking you to get terribly upset. Or not to support Palestine. Or not to loathe what Israel is doing. Or not to feel passionately for this man and the hellish situation he's in, or not to support his stand.

 

[IC3D]

Old man uses unPC language to soldiers who are shooting at kids. He should start checking his privileges.

 

[Santino]

A racist palestinian is always going to be tricky for Urbz as he would have to be simultaneously venerated and condemned. It's like that episode of Trek where JTK destroys the sentient computer by pointing out some logical paradox.

You're a cunt.

There, you've got what you came for, now leave.

 

[emanymton]

There may well be some context I'm unaware of, but what it sounded like was that he was telling people who kill to go and do their killing elsewhere; don't kill us, kill them. I think that's a terrible thing to say. But as I said earlier, it wouldn't stop me supporting him. Note that I'm talking about it here, rather than trying to tell him about it.
Not at all. In any way, whatsoever.
If you spend a lifetime as the recipient of racism, you are sensitive to it whenever it occurs and whenever something brings it to mind. If you're not the recipient of it, it's probably easier to ignore.
My guess is that it's this kind of response, rather than the man and what he said that prompted moon to do the thread. No one is asking you to get terribly upset. Or not to support Palestine. Or not to loathe what Israel is doing. Or not to feel passionately for this man and the hellish situation he's in, or not to support his stand.

It may be a terrible thing to say (more context is needed) but is it not also a very human thing to say? If someone is beating you wouldn't most people start to hope they would go and beat someone else, anyone else? Is this so different?

 

[moon]

No it's not a very human thing to say, you would want it to stop, for everyone.
I can only imagine what horrors he has to face on a daily basis. He spells in out in his confrontation, but to wish that on another group of people is horrendous.
What has Ethiopia or Ethiopians done to him for them to warrant that kind of treatment?

 

[NoXion]

Human says something irrational while under stress. What a fucking shock.

 

[emanymton]

No it's not a very human thing to say, you would want it to stop, for everyone.
I can only imagine what horrors he has to face on a daily basis. He spells in out in his confrontation, but to wish that on another group of people is horrendous.
What has Ethiopia or Ethiopians done to him for them to warrant that kind of treatment?

Sure you do, rationally. But then and there when shit is happening? Isn't it basically 'why don't you cunts just fuck off'? I would be surprised if those Palestinians who have had their homes bulldozed, their children shot didn't have a moment of thinking why did it have to be me, why my family, why not X's family from down the road. It's not like he actually expect them to go and fo it, he wasn't wanting anyone dead he just wanted the fuckers to go away.

Maybe you are right, I'm just thinking out load and I'm not really feeling right at the moment. So I could be thinking and talking shit.