George Osborne wriggles out of £1.6m taxes - make him pay here

[Streathamite]

If he is evading taxes then yes, it's hypocritcal, if he's avoiding taxes then I don't see how it can be.

BEcause a) he's loaded, he don't need the dosh, others need it far more than him
and b) and for the umpteenth fucking time, and as gideon keeps telling us WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!!!
Rocket science it is not. Sheesh........

 

[Streathamite]

It isn't a matter of cracking down as the original petition isn't asking for 100% inheritance tax but for GO to pay more tax than his legal obligation to on a voluntary basis.

Buying 200 Marlboro Light at an airport is tax avoidance just as surely as GO's (or rather his dad's) inheritance tax arrangement. They're both self-interested means of legally denying vital funds to the state.

So if the cigs are fine but the 1.6m. trust isn't where is the rubicon on the Urban Tax Avoidance Morality Scale? 100 quid? 1,000? 10,000?

what an utterly idiotic comparison.

 

[Citizen66]

If he is evading taxes then yes, it's hypocritcal, if he's avoiding taxes then I don't see how it can be.

Tbh, he's being hypocritical by not massivley simplifying the tax system (its complexities, after all, allow these "not illegal" loopholes to be exploited) in order to optimise the Governments tax take.

No, evading taxes would see him sent to jail. Avoiding taxes, whilst perfectly legal, is hypocritical when claiming the country is in dire need of funds and pinching pennies from the least well off.

 

[trevhagl]

No, evading taxes would see him sent to jail. Avoiding taxes, whilst perfectly legal, is hypocritical when claiming the country is in dire need of funds and pinching pennies from the least well off.

and don't forget that tab smugglers are usually driven into that by poverty and lack of a proper job.

Osbourne has money to burn yet he is STILL too greedy to pay his fair share of tax

 

[fogbat]

Tell you what. I'd be happy to pay duty on cigs and booze, if Georgie closes the loopholes and pays what he owes. Deal?

 

[frogwoman]

Tell you what. I'd be happy to pay duty on cigs and booze, if Georgie closes the loopholes and pays what he owes. Deal?

But he's a responsible and respectable member of society, and as such can be trusted with avoiding taxes in a way that those who enjoy cheap fags can't.

 

[lighterthief]

These tax avoidance mechanisms are all legal, whether it be ISAs, tax relief on pension contributions, taper relief on CGT, Potentially Exempt Transfers with regards to inheritance tax and so on. Putting assets in an offshore trust may not be straightforward for a lot of people, and would take expensive advice to achieve, but then for most people it's not worth it, as their assets upon death are unlikely to breach the IHT threshold (currently £325k).

Whether these tax avoidance schemes are morally right is a completely different question from whether they are legal or not, and this point was made earlier. If they are not morally acceptable to society, then society should lobby to have these loopholes closed. Simplistically attacking people for making use of existing legal measures to not pay tax is missing the target IMO.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

But he's a responsible and respectable member of society, and as such can be trusted with avoiding taxes in a way that those who enjoy cheap fags can't.

Because "those who enjoy cheap fags" are complicit in tax evasion, Osborne is avoiding taxes.

 

[free spirit]

These tax avoidance mechanisms are all legal, whether it be ISAs, tax relief on pension contributions, taper relief on CGT, Potentially Exempt Transfers with regards to inheritance tax and so on. Putting assets in an offshore trust may not be straightforward for a lot of people, and would take expensive advice to achieve, but then for most people it's not worth it, as their assets upon death are unlikely to breach the IHT threshold (currently £325k).

Whether these tax avoidance schemes are morally right is a completely different question from whether they are legal or not, and this point was made earlier. If they are not morally acceptable to society, then society should lobby to have these loopholes closed. Simplistically attacking people for making use of existing legal measures to not pay tax is missing the target IMO.

yes, but the entire point in this situation is that the person we'd have to lobby to close the tax loopholes is himself benefitting from those tax loopholes to the tune of £1.4 million, which makes the chances that he's going to propose such a change rather slim wouldn't you say?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

BEcause a) he's loaded, he don't need the dosh, . .

Who decides that someone doesn't need the dosh? You? A citizen's militia?
Why restrict it to money?
My next-door neighbour's a dustman (I live on a council estate), he doesn't "need" the 40"+ TV that be bought with a recent several thousand pound windfall.
Seems to me that the politics of envy is driving this thread more than any serious wish to engage in debate/discussion

 

[free spirit]

Who decides that someone doesn't need the dosh? You? A citizen's militia?
Why restrict it to money?
My next-door neighbour's a dustman (I live on a council estate), he doesn't "need" the 40"+ TV that be bought with a recent several thousand pound windfall.
Seems to me that the politics of envy is driving this thread more than any serious wish to engage in debate/discussion

that's usually a large part of the chancellors role...

 

[trevhagl]

Who decides that someone doesn't need the dosh? You? A citizen's militia?
Why restrict it to money?
My next-door neighbour's a dustman (I live on a council estate), he doesn't "need" the 40"+ TV that be bought with a recent several thousand pound windfall.
Seems to me that the politics of envy is driving this thread more than any serious wish to engage in debate/discussion

well if you can't say that a millionaire needs the money or not i wouldn't like to guess what your benchmark for that is

 

[DotCommunist]

Who decides that someone doesn't need the dosh? You? A citizen's militia?
Why restrict it to money?
My next-door neighbour's a dustman (I live on a council estate), he doesn't "need" the 40"+ TV that be bought with a recent several thousand pound windfall.
Seems to me that the politics of envy is driving this thread more than any serious wish to engage in debate/discussion

Every right winger seems to live on a council estate these days. Wall to fucking wall, either grew up on one or lives on one. It really is amazing.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

well if you can't say that a millionaire needs the money or not i wouldn't like to guess what your benchmark for that is

Where's your threashol? £10k, £100k, £250k etc
(serious question)

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Every right winger seems to live on a council estate these days. Wall to fucking wall, either grew up on one or lives on one. It really is amazing.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I agree with them.
Political debating 101

 

[Streathamite]

Who decides that someone doesn't need the dosh? You? A citizen's militia?
Why restrict it to money?

basic morality and common decency, especially when the heir to a massive great fortune is lecturing the rest of us about the 'sacrifices' we have to make.
It's pretty obvious, in fact

 

[A Dashing Blade]

basic morality and common decency . . .

Both of which involve value judgements which are, in prt at least, based on the society in which you live. Eg in many parts of the world bribary/baksheesh is totally acceptable.
At the end of the day, I understand the point you're making and understand why you're making it. I simply disagree with it because it involves value judgement.

 

[Streathamite]

Simplistically attacking people for making use of existing legal measures to not pay tax is missing the target IMO.

I see your point, but if you can't look to the Chancellor, of all people, to set an example, and to not be such a thuimping hypocrite, then who can you look to?

 

[Lo Siento.]

Both of which involve value judgements which are, in prt at least, based on the society in which you live. Eg in many parts of the world bribary/baksheesh is totally acceptable.
At the end of the day, I understand the point you're making and understand why you're making it. I simply disagree with it because it involves value judgement.

How do you get through life, let alone politics, without making judgements about value? Everything is a value judgement, your moral relativism is a get out clause from any kind of opinions whatsoever.

 

[Streathamite]

How do you get through life, let alone politics, without making judgements about value? Everything is a value judgement, your moral relativism is a get out clause from any kind of opinions whatsoever.

..or any sort of politics, come to that!

 

[frogwoman]

Someone buying duty free fags, Some small businessman or a "self-employed" guy fiddling their tax sheet, while completely wrong, is nothing com,pared to THE FUCKING CHANCELLOR who makes laws about taxes, fiddling a MASSSIVE tax bill of millions of poiunds.

do you see that ??

 

[A Dashing Blade]

How do you get through life, let alone politics, without making judgements about value? Everything is a value judgement, your moral relativism is a get out clause from any kind of opinions whatsoever.

Life's different, but politics (and this thread being in the politics forum) . . . bottom line I hate the lot of them, they're all lying bastards imo and I trust them as far as I can throw a brick (which isn't very far)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

you'd think then that these 'totally legitimate loopholes' would have been known to those aristocratic families which were forced to sell estates and paintings to pay their inheritance tax. and maybe you could share some of these legitimate loopholes. having had a conversation with a solicitor on the subject of inheritance tax, i'd be interested so i can let him know about them.

Buy a flat in Gibraltar. You won't actually have to go to the god forsaken shithole, just owning a flat there will exempt you from paying your whack.



And DD banging on about duty free, the goods are exported numbnuts, it's the very essence of international trade. Besides when I buy my 200 bennies at Gatwick, they're smoked long before I get back. And my litre of vodka's usually gone before I hit customs at my fucking destination.

 

[butchersapron]

George Osborne claimed he put extra money into the HMRC to crack down on avoidance whilst avoiding tax. All the above defensive shit is waffle. Meaningless.

 

[trevhagl]

George Osborne claimed he put extra money into the HMRC to crack down on avoidance whilst avoiding tax. All the above defensive shit is waffle. Meaningless.

yeah but he didn't mean to clamp down on RICH people avoiding tax!

and he was actually lying about more tax inspectors too.

 

[DownwardDog]

And DD banging on about duty free, the goods are exported numbnuts, it's the very essence of international trade. Besides when I buy my 200 bennies at Gatwick, they're smoked long before I get back. And my litre of vodka's usually gone before I hit customs at my fucking destination.

If you really cared about nurses and other vital front line services you'd buy them before you got to the airport and pay the full whack on them. If you can afford to go on holiday then you can afford to pay your fair share of tax on fags.

 

[lighterthief]

...when I buy my 200 bennies at Gatwick, they're smoked long before I get back. And my litre of vodka's usually gone before I hit customs at my fucking destination.

What is your point?

 

[butchersapron]

George Osborne claimed he put extra money into the HMRC to crack down on avoidance whilst avoiding tax. All the above defensive shit is waffle. Meaningless.

 

[Soppingwet]

...and dripping wet wiberwals

What's the definition of wet? Someone who gives a damn about those who can't speak for themselves? Someone who believes and acts on the premise that it's better to err on the side of justice as a right for all, who are willing to stand up for it no matter what the dangers, rather than the side of safety at the expense of freedom because we are so fwitened of all those foweners who want to destwoy our wonderfull way of life.

 

[Refused as fuck]

That is exactly it, yes.