Gender idealism?

[Shippou-Sensei]

proving that Puddy_Tat isn't an AI bot


I think

or possibly a very disobedient one

Bad training data at the least.

 

[Happy Tree]

There was an old man from Nepal
Who went to a fancy dress ball
He thought he would risk it
To go as a biscuit
But the dog ate him up in the hall

 

[friendofdorothy]

... It happened for real and we actually enjoyed some good friend time. Would have been better and more stable had both of us understood this dialectical materialism.

I find it possible to have good, stable relationships with people of all genders and have a really good time, even when none of us has understood dialectical materialism.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

even when none of us has understood dialectical materialism.

I once understood that but then I came out of the K hole.

 

[ouirdeaux]

I remember when it was possible to have relationships, stable or not, without doing a degree in the subject first.

 

[Epona]

I find it possible to have a basic theoretical understanding of dialectical materialism and maintain relationships on all sorts of levels with all sorts of people, despite that

 

[Yugoslav]

Seems quite solidly collectivist.

It is because it encompasses all trans people in said socialist state.

 

[Yugoslav]

When considering transgender rights activism through a Marxist lens, it’s essential to distinguish between idealism (which sees ideas as primary) and materialism (which sees material conditions as primary). Some Marxists might argue that focusing on social transition and identity politics appears idealist because it centers on individuals’ subjective experiences of gender, which could be interpreted as rooted in personal identity rather than the material conditions of society. They might view social transition or self-identification as an expression of individual choice that doesn’t directly address material inequalities, such as economic class, wealth, and power disparities. In this interpretation, prioritizing identity-based politics could be seen as a form of “idealism” because it foregrounds personal or cultural identity as a driving force for change, rather than material conditions like labor relations or economic exploitation.

However, this interpretation can be challenged. One could argue that transgender rights activism is fundamentally materialist if it’s understood as a struggle against concrete social, legal, and economic structures that enforce binary gender norms, and perpetuate inequality and discrimination. Transgender individuals face material realities such as employment discrimination, healthcare access issues, poverty, and violence, which are deeply connected to the broader structure of capitalism and social reproduction. Advocating for transgender rights could be seen as addressing those material conditions, particularly when activism is concerned with fighting for healthcare access (e.g., hormone therapy and surgeries), legal protections, housing, and employment opportunities.

The materialist part existed from the 20th century up until the 2010s. Idealism within the trans movement began to arise in the 2010s and now it has become prevalent as of 2020s. Therefore, the trans movement, if to be returned as a civil rights movement, must fight for free healthcare that affirms the transgender and medical transition. Yes, social transition is indeed idealist as you do not fulfill the material requirements of your desired gender and are just making "concessions" to this idealism.

 

[Epona]

It is because it encompasses all trans people in said socialist state.

Having a say in what happens to them, or being told what will happen to them by cis people?

 

[Yugoslav]

Having a say in what happens to them, or being told what will happen to them by cis people?

A vanguard full of working class men, has a say for the working class itself and it aims to build socialism and pave way for communism per Leninist theory. If transgenders are the working class too, then the vanguard has a valid say still.

 

[Yugoslav]

The thing is, I would expect a communist would be in favour of a) working class unity and b) gaining the trust and respect of their fellow workers. But it sounds like you've created division instead of unity and gone from being mates with this bloke to him not wanting to hear anything you have to say. And not over some vital issue of Marxist principle but over something that, if we're being materialists about this, has precisely fuck-all negative material impact on you or anyone else. So it sounds like you're a bit shit at this whole communism business, and you might get a bit better at it if you could learn to be a bit more polite to trans people.

No I don't think that Eurocommunism is the valid path for me. Marxism-Leninism and its temporary vanguard rule with inner democracy, building better lives for workers, fighting against capitalism through revolutionary means, dealing with counter-revolutionary elements that capitalism unleashes in the form of fascism, liberalism, and social democracy (social fascism), having a professional workers' army aiming to protect the working class from bourgeois counter-revolution and imperialism is the true form of socialism that has proven successful in terms of military capability and sometimes, economic too.

The USSR went from an agrarian nation into a superpower that put the first object and first man in space. However, I believe that the USSR should not have really been engaged with this silly competition of space race because it did kinda drain the economy. What should have been done was to further the domestic production and economic independence of USSR not by further decentralizing but by automating the economy with OGAS starting in the early 1960s which would have solved the problem with the looming oil crisis in 1973 that damaged the USSR due to its reliance on oil which led to raising of energy prices in the USSR.

 

[Yugoslav]

I find it possible to have a basic theoretical understanding of dialectical materialism and maintain relationships on all sorts of levels with all sorts of people, despite that

The relationship between me and her was unfortunately a zero-sum as I've previously stated. I tried reconciliation with the "they/them" pronouns but she vehemently rejected it.

 

[Happy Tree]

What is this thing you call "love" ?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The relationship between me and her was unfortunately a zero-sum as I've previously stated. I tried reconciliation with the "they/them" pronouns but she vehemently rejected it.

So your friend is a trans man and dialectics means that you must always misgender him. Unless he has surgery that he doesn’t want. Nice.

 

[mojo pixy]

a short poem about dogs .. and dialectical materialism

the dogs all had a party
they came from near and far
some dogs came by aeroplane
and some by motor car
they went into the lobby
and signed the visitors book
and each one hung his arsehole
upon a separate hook

one dog was not invited
and this aroused his ire
he rushed into the meeting place
and loudly shouted, fire!
the dogs were so excited
they had no time to look
and each one took an arsehole
from off the nearest hook

this is a sad, sad story
for it is very sore
to wear another’s arsehole
you’ve never worn before
but that is why when dogs they meet
on land or sea or foam
they sniff each other’s arsehole
to see if it's their own

(original by matt mcginn)

 

[krtek a houby]

Not because it would appease us. But because it would truly make them happy. We do this to appease them. The idealists think otherwise and their toxic liberalism is waging a smear campaign claiming that it constitutes an "evil ideology of transmedicalism".

Don't believe a word of what you're saying.

 

[frogwoman]

A vanguard full of working class men, has a say for the working class itself and it aims to build socialism and pave way for communism per Leninist theory. If transgenders are the working class too, then the vanguard has a valid say still.

Oh dear

 

[A380]

Time for the OP to start singing Daisy Daisy really slowly…

 

[PTK]

Dialectical materialism, the philosophical foundation of Marxist theory, asserts that material conditions shape ideas and consciousness. According to this view, the material world exists independently of human thought, and societal changes arise from contradictions in material conditions, rather than abstract ideas or ideals. In this framework, ideas, including ideologies and beliefs, are seen as reflections of the material conditions and power structures in society.

When considering transgender rights activism through a Marxist lens, it’s essential to distinguish between idealism (which sees ideas as primary) and materialism (which sees material conditions as primary). Some Marxists might argue that focusing on social transition and identity politics appears idealist because it centers on individuals’ subjective experiences of gender, which could be interpreted as rooted in personal identity rather than the material conditions of society. They might view social transition or self-identification as an expression of individual choice that doesn’t directly address material inequalities, such as economic class, wealth, and power disparities. In this interpretation, prioritizing identity-based politics could be seen as a form of “idealism” because it foregrounds personal or cultural identity as a driving force for change, rather than material conditions like labor relations or economic exploitation.

However, this interpretation can be challenged. One could argue that transgender rights activism is fundamentally materialist if it’s understood as a struggle against concrete social, legal, and economic structures that enforce binary gender norms, and perpetuate inequality and discrimination. Transgender individuals face material realities such as employment discrimination, healthcare access issues, poverty, and violence, which are deeply connected to the broader structure of capitalism and social reproduction. Advocating for transgender rights could be seen as addressing those material conditions, particularly when activism is concerned with fighting for healthcare access (e.g., hormone therapy and surgeries), legal protections, housing, and employment opportunities.

In other words, whether transgender rights activism is considered idealist or materialist from a Marxist perspective depends on how one interprets the activism:

1. If it is viewed as primarily concerned with subjective identity and personal experience, some Marxists might critique it as leaning toward idealism.

2. If it’s viewed as addressing the real material conditions and structures of oppression that transgender people face, it aligns more closely with dialectical materialism.

The tension between these interpretations also highlights broader debates within Marxism about the role of identity politics in revolutionary struggles. Some Marxists argue that focusing on identity divides the working class and distracts from the core issue of class struggle, while others believe that all forms of oppression, including those based on gender, must be addressed as part of the broader struggle for emancipation.

A very good post.

I have a comment about this sentence.

“One could argue that transgender rights activism is fundamentally materialist if it’s understood as a struggle against concrete social, legal, and economic structures that enforce binary gender norms”.

It seems to me that some trans rights activism reinforces binary gender norms.

 

[PTK]

The materialist part existed from the 20th century up until the 2010s. Idealism within the trans movement began to arise in the 2010s and now it has become prevalent as of 2020s. Therefore, the trans movement, if to be returned as a civil rights movement, must fight for free healthcare that affirms the transgender and medical transition. Yes, social transition is indeed idealist as you do not fulfill the material requirements of your desired gender and are just making "concessions" to this idealism.

If you were a Marxist, you woud know that gender is a social consruct, and therefore social tranition doe not require a physical change.

 

[PTK]

No I don't think that Eurocommunism is the valid path for me. Marxism-Leninism and its temporary vanguard rule with inner democracy, building better lives for workers, fighting against capitalism through revolutionary means, dealing with counter-revolutionary elements that capitalism unleashes in the form of fascism, liberalism, and social democracy (social fascism), having a professional workers' army aiming to protect the working class from bourgeois counter-revolution and imperialism is the true form of socialism that has proven successful in terms of military capability and sometimes, economic too.

The USSR went from an agrarian nation into a superpower that put the first object and first man in space. However, I believe that the USSR should not have really been engaged with this silly competition of space race because it did kinda drain the economy. What should have been done was to further the domestic production and economic independence of USSR not by further decentralizing but by automating the economy with OGAS starting in the early 1960s which would have solved the problem with the looming oil crisis in 1973 that damaged the USSR due to its reliance on oil which led to raising of energy prices in the USSR.

Well, well, well. Social democracy is "social fascism". The stupid sectarian Stalinist line that divided the workers movement in Germany and enabled Hitler to come to power without a civil war. The Communist Party of Germany refused to unite with social democratic workers to defeat fascism.

This line was a product of “third period Stalinism”. Then there was a complete turn-around, and the line became the popular front, in which communist parties allied not simply with social democratic parties, but also with liberal bourgeois parties.

 

[Serge Forward]

You do all realise this is a bot, right?

 

[PTK]

You do all realise this is a bot, right?

I was not sure, but your post has prompted me to conclude that it must be. It is the mention of Eurocommunism that I think is the definitive proof. It came out of nowhere. No human would mention it. [Edit]. No human would mention Eurocommunism in that particular context. Who now remembers Eurocommunism?

 

[A380]

'Hey Yugoslav, there's an Alan Turing on the phone, he says you failed his test.'

 

[A380]

I was not sure, but your post has prompted me to conclude that it must be. It is the mention of Eurocommunism that I think is the definitive proof. It came out of nowhere. No human would mention it. [Edit]. No human would mention Eurocommunism in that particular context. Who now remembers Eurocommunism?

Well, I do, as it happens.

 

[frogwoman]

I suspect they're real. Some of the grammar isn't perfect and there's some other weird phraseology being used

 

[Silas Loom]

Anybody who seriously thinks this is a bot really doesn’t understand humans, or bots. If it’s just a convenient insult for abusing a newbie who seems unlikely to be an ornament to the boards, carry on.

 

[PTK]

Well, I do, as it happens.

Yes, but if this is a real person, they are obviously too young to remember Eurocommunism.

 

[PTK]

Anybody who seriously thinks this is a bot really doesn’t understand humans, or bots. If it’s just a convenient insult for abusing a newbie who seems unlikely to be an ornament to the boards, carry on.

Post 161. The mention of Eurocommunism. This does not at all seem like something a human being would say. Eurocommunism was something that was once a significant political trend, about 40 years ago.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Post 161. The mention of Eurocommunism. This does not at all seem like something a human being would say. Eurocommunism was something that was once a significant political trend, about 40 years ago.

Also not likely for a bot to say.

Unless it had some real funky training data.