Fuck Gentrification - Join the Fuck Parade...Part 3!

[Sparkle Motion]

You can only protest if you live there and it directly affects you?

Better go tell all the Palestine Solidarity pickets to piss off home then.

If even 20% of the protesters were genuinely local that would be a massively exciting development. Most people affected by gentrification quietly move on to a better life in the suburbs, and wouldn't go back even if they could.

So who are these people who turned up en masse and decided to dictate who can and cannot set up a business? What makes them any better than the people whose cafe they trashed?

I will donate £10 to a charity of your choice for every born and bred local arrested, if you do the same for every outsider who, like the hipsters, has chosen to move in and change the area to what they think it should be.

 

[Citizen66]

If even 20% of the protesters were genuinely local that would be a massively exciting development. Most people affected by gentrification quietly move on to a better life in the suburbs, and wouldn't go back even if they could.

Gentrification helps people.

Gonna need some supporting evidence for this one I think.

 

[Batboy]

I don't do private work. I'm on a salary. What do you earn you nosey cunt?

At the moment fuck all. funny how you can drum on about what profit people/business makes but get touchy about your own situation. When I have business up and running I pay myself 25k a year. I live relatively frugally, I am not extravagant, I get around on a bike that cost me £200, I don't own a flash car. I am not rich but I am not poor. But I know I am lucky and so are you if you have a job. I also in my spare time run a small charity helping youths and teens access football. I pay for all of this. Your perception of me and indeed people who run businesses is probably quite warped and far from reality. Not all bosses are greedy cunts.

 

[Citizen66]

I'm not profiting from other people's labour though. So as interested as I might be in playing prolier than thou, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Batboy]

Gentrification helps people.

Gonna need some supporting evidence for this one I think.

Regeneration can help.

The problem with gentrification (a term that has only come into our everyday use over the last 20 years) is that in London and other cities around the globe it has morphed into social engineering almost by default. My Aunt lived in the docklands back in the 60's and early 70's it was a shit hole she couldn't wait to get out of there. She moved to Barking . Of course if you look at the fortunes of those areas now it is a big contrast.

Of course we all know the path these areas take. Starting cheap, interesting people move in the area becomes buzzy the hipsters and architects/propertty developers move in and prices spiral forcing businesses and existing residents out of the area. Difficult to know how to stop that process.

The affordable housing situation is the key. Areas that get totally gentrified become bland and boring, personally I love a colourful mix. Until such time the property market crashes (It will) and we bring in an intelligent regulation on property prices and ownership we will continue in a housing crisis.

 

[Batboy]

I'm not profiting from other people's labour though. So as interested as I might be in playing prolier than thou, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

You are profiting... you get paid for your time and work that is a profit for your labour. If you were a sub contractor, that is how it would be classified and in reality being directly employed is still the same.
You may not like the fact that somebody else makes a profit on your time... you could always go and set yourself up as a contractor and take on the work yourself. That opportunity is there for you. Most electricians I know earn a fair whack certainly more money then than I do charging out around 30.00 per hour for labour only work. And I rather suspect you earn more than me. Whatever your political ideology I cannot see an alternative system that works better then we have. Of course it needs a lot of fixing to get right.

 

[pocketscience]

I'm not profiting from other people's labour though. So as interested as I might be in playing prolier than thou, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Bold statment. I find it hard to see how anybody living in a 1st world economy doesn't profit from other peoples labour.

 

[Blagsta]

Bold statment. I find it hard to see how anybody living in a 1st world economy doesn't profit from other peoples labour.

Explain?

 

[Belushi]

Most people affected by gentrification quietly move on to a better life in the suburbs, and wouldn't go back even if they could.

What are you basing that on?

 

[Citizen66]

You are profiting... you get paid for your time and work that is a profit for your labour. If you were a sub contractor, that is how it would be classified and in reality being directly employed is still the same.
You may not like the fact that somebody else makes a profit on your time... you could always go and set yourself up as a contractor and take on the work yourself. That opportunity is there for you. Most electricians I know earn a fair whack certainly more money then than I do charging out around 30.00 per hour for labour only work. And I rather suspect you earn more than me. Whatever your political ideology I cannot see an alternative system that works better then we have. Of course it needs a lot of fixing to get right.

I sell my labour in return for a wage. Do you know what profit is? I assume you do given you run a business that employs people.

 

[pocketscience]

Explain?

The 1st world system was build and exists on the exploitation of enslaved/ lower wage countries. Unless you really live outside the system you profit from that indirectly imo.

 

[Blagsta]

The 1st world system was build and exists on the exploitation of enslaved/ lower wage countries. Unless you really live outside the system you profit from that indirectly imo.

Indirectly. Yes.

 

[pocketscience]

I sell my labour in return for a wage. Do you know what profit is? I assume you do given you run a business that employs people.

What do you work as and who are the end customers of the goods or services the company you work for supplies?

 

[Citizen66]

The 1st world system was build and exists on the exploitation of enslaved/ lower wage countries. Unless you really live outside the system you profit from that indirectly imo.

 

[Citizen66]

What do you work as and who are the end customers of the goods or services the company you work for supplies?

Do you want my mothers fucking maiden name too?

 

[pocketscience]

Indirectly. Yes.

Never the less, profit we do.

 

[Citizen66]

Never the less, profit we do.

If you work for a firm that generates profit, you make a loss.

 

[Blagsta]

Never the less, profit we do.

Not "profit", no. That has a specific meaning in this context. Benefit, yes. Profit, no.

 

[Citizen66]

Not sure how much we benefit from it tbh. International Capital uses one country to produce and another country to consume. The profit goes into private pockets not social policies.

 

[prunus]

You always get reactions such as this from Liberals. They don't like uncontrolled (not peaceful) demonstration.

Uncontrolledly go and smash up the plate glass of the City of London institutions and I'm right behind it. They were (as has been pointed out) about 400 yards away from the shop actually attacked, where a couple of kids are probably just about breaking even with an admittedly annoying "wacky" cafe.

With these choices being made it looks very like "Class War" (hah! the naïveté) are just bullies and cowards, raging against the machine but scared to actually confront it.

 

[Citizen66]

Uncontrolledly go and smash up the plate glass of the City of London institutions and I'm right behind it. They were (as has been pointed out) about 400 yards away from the shop actually attacked, where a couple of kids are probably just about breaking even with an admittedly annoying "wacky" cafe.

With these choices being made it looks very like "Class War" (hah! the naïveté) are just bullies and cowards, raging against the machine but scared to actually confront it.

Whatever your personal view, the very same arguments were had in the late 90s when McDonalds windows went through.

 

[seventh bullet]

Not sure how much we benefit from it tbh. International Capital uses one country to produce and another country to consume. The profit goes into private pockets not social policies.

Shut up you labour aristokkkrat.

 

[cantsin]

Uncontrolledly go and smash up the plate glass of the City of London institutions and I'm right behind it. They were (as has been pointed out) about 400 yards away from the shop actually attacked, where a couple of kids are probably just about breaking even with an admittedly annoying "wacky" cafe.

With these choices being made it looks very like "Class War" (hah! the naïveté) are just bullies and cowards, raging against the machine but scared to actually confront it.

Bit naive to think " the machine " is always the lumbering beast with a big " capitalist baddie" sign on it tbh

 

[Citizen66]

Shut up you labour aristokkkrat.

Call yourself a socialist and you live in a house?

 

[pocketscience]

Not "profit", no. That has a specific meaning in this context. Benefit, yes. Profit, no.

In Marx's native language, "profit" and "benefit" share the same word: der Gewinn.

 

[stethoscope]

In Marx's native language, "profit" and "benefit" share the same word: der Gewinn.

Profit is very specific in Marx usage.

 

[Citizen66]

In Marx's native language, "profit" and "benefit" share the same word: der Gewinn.

In the UK benefit synonymous with welfare. So we come a full circle.

 

[pocketscience]

Profit is very specific in Marx usage.

Yes, financial profit.
Though the word profit alone is synonymous with benefit.

 

[Blagsta]

In Marx's native language, "profit" and "benefit" share the same word: der Gewinn.

So?

 

[Blagsta]

Yes, financial profit.
Though the word profit alone is synonymous with benefit.

There's a specific context to the argument here that you're missing.