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Food Banks not necessary says Cameron

Granted you provided the video, you left it out of the text which is the bit most people will deal with and it does change the cotext

I quoted the core statement relevant to this discussion and linked to the full quote where he tried to prevaricate a bit around that statement in both text and video formats.

Do you claim that I deliberately set out to deceive people? If so I think you're full of shit.

For the full context, try the link I posted earlier. It's fascinating stuff.

The guiding idea at the heart of today's political system is freedom of choice. The belief that if you apply the ideals of the free market to all sorts of areas in society, people will be liberated from the dead hand of government. The wants and desires of individuals then become the primary motor of society.

But this has led to a very peculiar paradox. In politics today we have no choice at all. Quite simply There Is No Alternative.

That was fine when the system was working well. But since 2008 there has been a rolling economic crisis, and the system increasingly seems unable to rescue itself. You would expect that in response to such a crisis new, alternative ideas would emerge. But this hasn't happened.

Nobody - not just from the left, but from anywhere - has come forward and tried to grab the public imagination with a vision of a different way to organise and manage society.

It's a bit odd - and I thought I would tell a number of stories about why we find it impossible to imagine any alternative. Why we have become so possessed by the ideology of our age that we cannot think outside it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/09/the_curse_of_tina.html
 
They believe in their delusion:

they don't think poverty is desirable, per se, but that those in poverty have only themselves to blame.

They also think that the more bitter the medicine, the more effective the cure. All the 'british people' have to do is 'stay the course' 'hold their nerve' and everything will, in short order, be golden.
This, in particular, is a very glaring part of what they're doing.

It seems evident to me that, at least as far as the poor and disabled are concerned, they're convinced that the only solution is coercion. And if coercion isn't working - as it clearly won't if you're trying to coerce, say, people with lifelong illnesses to get better - then their answer seems to be simply to up the coercion.

And nowhere is this quite so obvious as the policy in regard to people with mental health issues. It truly does appear that the DWP, if not the rest of government, subscribes to the "snap out of it/pull yourself together" view on mental illness, and, faced with the real experience of mad people having full-on meltdowns in/before/after DWP assessments, they simply don't know what to do. Their dogma and ideology says they're only faking it, but I would imagine that all but the most inhumane (so that'd be IDS, then) cunt will find it hard to square a "they're only swinging the lead" argument with claimants dying by suicide in ever-increasing numbers. Some will try and make that OK by simply refusing to believe that the suicides have anything to do with the assessment process, but as the data points build up, that won't continue to wash; some will, I imagine, just assume that these people were always going to make suicide attempts, so "not my problem, guv".

But some - I dearly hope - will recognise that beating disabled people (especially those with mental health problems) with ever-bigger sticks won't solve anything, except perhaps to reduce the numbers through death and suicide, and start lobbying for change. It can't come soon enough.
 
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IDS won't turn up at a foodbank because he'll be fucking lynched, armed guard or no!

Though seeing headlines of his beaten dead face after hiding from a baying mob in a pipe like Gadaffi would be...entertaining.

(Not really, I hate that the Coalition makes me think that way).
 
It truly does appear that the DWP, if not the rest of government, subscribes to the "snap out of it/pull yourself together" view on mental illness, and, faced with the real experience of mad people having full-on meltdowns in/before/after DWP assessments, they simply don't know what to do.

Not just that but the odious 'work cures you' attitude. if only those lazy bedblockers would take up out of their beds they'd get work - and be cured. As if there are employers beating at the doors of the sick who keep knocking with jobs waiting to be offered but can't be heard over the sound of the
MASSIVE screen tv blaring out Jeremy Kyle.
 
:confused: Does anyone stay in hospital any longer than they have to these days? Grim places where you as likely to pick up something worse than what you went in for.

Eta this is to no way denigrate the staff, whose compassion and professionalism in all my recent experiences has been superlative
 
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screen-shot-2013-09-13-at-10-20-33-am.png
 
This, in particular, is a very glaring part of what they're doing.

It seems evident to me that, at least as far as the poor and disabled are concerned, they're convinced that the only solution is coercion. And if coercion isn't working - as it clearly won't if you're trying to coerce, say, people with lifelong illnesses to get better - then their answer seems to be simply to up the coercion.

And nowhere is this quite so obvious as the policy in regard to people with mental health issues. It truly does appear that the DWP, if not the rest of government, subscribes to the "snap out of it/pull yourself together" view on mental illness, and, faced with the real experience of mad people having full-on meltdowns in/before/after DWP assessments, they simply don't know what to do. Their dogma and ideology says they're only faking it, but I would imagine that all but the most inhumane (so that'd be IDS, then) cunt will find it hard to square a "they're only swinging the lead" argument with claimants dying by suicide in ever-increasing numbers. Some will try and make that OK by simply refusing to believe that the suicides have anything to do with the assessment process, but as the data points build up, that won't continue to wash; some will, I imagine, just assume that these people were always going to make suicide attempts, so "not my problem, guv".

But some - I dearly hope - will recognise that beating disabled (especially those with mental health problems) with ever-bigger sticks won't solve anything, except perhaps to reduce the numbers through death and suicide, and start lobbying for change. It can't come soon enough.

My friend's son with aspergers got told by the job centre she had to bring her kid who was (then) a child and if he kicked off "they would call security". So reassuring. Wish she had complained about them formally threatening a disabled child. Ignorance like that shouldn't go unchallenged.
 
My friend's son with aspergers got told by the job centre she had to bring her kid who was (then) a child and if he kicked off "they would call security". So reassuring. Wish she had complained about them formally threatening a disabled child. Ignorance like that shouldn't go unchallenged.
Horrible as it is, I think people need to be calling these bastards' bluff. Something like that - an ASD kid kicking off, security blundering in - can only ultimately end up with the matter ending up in the hands of people who DO know what they're doing, and I imagine the police would quite quickly get fed up with being called to assessment centres to deal with problems that have been escalated through the hamfistedness of the people working in them.

I think they rely on the combination of not-so-veiled threats and people's natural reticence about "creating a scene" to cow people into compliance. And all the time that keeps working, they'll keep doing it :(
 
i'm not reading all the thread again so i dunno if anyone knows this yet but i see the nazis are starting using food banks to recruit now....grim<snip>
Grim, but a good move on their part - desperate people like quick and easy answers. :(
 
Not just that but the odious 'work cures you' attitude. if only those lazy bedblockers would take up out of their beds they'd get work - and be cured. As if there are employers beating at the doors of the sick who keep knocking with jobs waiting to be offered but can't be heard over the sound of the
MASSIVE screen tv blaring out Jeremy Kyle.
Yeah, although like so many of their ideas, it's a perversion of a truth. There is no doubt that many people with mental health problems do improve as a result of some kind of occupational therapy, and that might well stretch as far as having an actual job.

But there are some problems ("nooo", I hear you cry).

First of all, it's one thing working with someone to find an appropriate activity (and level of activity) that might help them to start expanding their horizons and level of social interest; it's quite another to just say "Oi, scrounger, you're fit for work: go and get a fucking job".

Which leads onto the second point: disabled people, and especially those with mental health conditions, aren't always likely to be "reliable". For an employer whose business might depend on his staff being there pretty much every day, someone with a variable health condition, or a mental illness, who might well be unable to work for substantial - and unpredictable - periods of time, isn't going to be a good bet. Even if, on their good days, they're excellent employees, if you can't be sure they're going to be in next week to be excellent, all that ability doesn't count for much.

And, if the level of work hasn't been calibrated to their level of fitness, it may even be that the stress of being in a position of knowing that it's going to cause problems to be ill can be something that makes the problem even worse. I've worked with a number of clients who had long-term mental health problems, but who had bought into the idea that they "should be working", and had taken on jobs which resulted in their leaving, demoralised and guilty, as a result of becoming completely emotionally overwhelmed by the whole process of going into the workplace and being depended on to get things done. I can't think of a situation where they didn't end up in a worse state, as a result, although TBF it is unlikely that I would have encountered the ones who did get better...but I am doubtful that there are too many of those.
 
Yeah, although like so many of their ideas, it's a perversion of a truth. There is no doubt that many people with mental health problems do improve as a result of some kind of occupational therapy, and that might well stretch as far as having an actual job.

The problem is how that is interpreted. As a statement it is entirely dependent on the therapy or work involved. But that's as far as most people (like my GP) think. Any job is a job is a good job. People say 'it's better than nothing, or it's better than no work'. I don't agree. Some jobs are worse, many jobs are as bad, some are decent. Unfortunately there is no effort to help someone find something suitable because the DWP are too eager to get people off the claimant count than to help them.
 
I have sent the following to Ms McVey:

"Dear Ms McVey

[1] Could you please when you last visited your local food bank?

[2] Did you meet any of the users? (note, users not volunteers)

[3] What did they say to you?

I intend to publish your answers and so I look forward to a speedy, comprehensive and accurate response.

Yours etc etc"

I will, of course, let you know of any reply

Should anyone else have the urge to contact Ms McVey and ask her some pertinent questions here are her details:

Tel: 0151 632 1052 / 24 Meols Drive, Hoylake, Wirral, CH47 4AN
Email: esther.mcvey.mp@parliament.uk / Web: www.esthermcvey.com

Copy it to your local MP and DWP himself and just to keep everybody busy PM and DPM = top and tailed of course.
 
IDS won't turn up at a foodbank because he'll be fucking lynched, armed guard or no!

Though seeing headlines of his beaten dead face after hiding from a baying mob in a pipe like Gadaffi would be...entertaining.

(Not really, I hate that the Coalition makes me think that way).

Which is where we differ. I believe that being beaten to death by a mob is a fitting fate for a man whose policies have had a hand in thousands of deaths by suicide in the last 3 and a half years, and I'd say much the same if it were James Purnell kicked into a dead sack of meat, too.
 
:confused: Does anyone stay in hospital any longer than they have to these days? Grim places where you as likely to pick up something worse than what you went in for.

Eta this is to no way denigrate the staff, whose compassion and professionalism in all my recent experiences has been superlative

IIRC the last official assessment of general ward admission and release stats in England & Wales showed about 30% extended occupancy due to poor coordination between hospitals and local social services, so obviously a fair few people are having to stay in longer than necessary, for want of an alternative.
 
i'm not reading all the thread again so i dunno if anyone knows this yet but i see the nazis are starting using food banks to recruit now....grim

http://londonantifascists.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/bnp-organises-east-london-food-banks/

They're not Nazis, they're neo-fascists for the most part, of the "New Right" persuasion.

They obviously don't read history books, those fascists, or they'd know what happened last time a fascist organisation in London tried using hunger to turn peoples' politics.
 
Which is where we differ. I believe that being beaten to death by a mob is a fitting fate for a man whose policies have had a hand in thousands of deaths by suicide in the last 3 and a half years, and I'd say much the same if it were James Purnell kicked into a dead sack of meat, too.

I picture a stadium full of people hurt by him and his policies deciding his fate and carrying out the sentence.
 
Talk to the people talking the food, too; if they’re not already aware of who the BNP are, let them know. They might not want to take food selectively handed out by fascists as part of a publicity stunt. If they need an alternative food bank, the Trussell Trust is the UK’s largest mainstream provider and though has its own political problems it currently helps over 500,000 people a year with food.

from the LAF site

and maybe they are desperate enough to take it anyway
 
Surely just take some people that aren't white to that foodbank, and a camera, and fiklm the reaction of the racists when they face having to decide if feeding hungry British Somali people is what they signe dup for.
 
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