Filling the Vacuum 1995

[The39thStep]

Facts are not to be sneered at.

Town councillor? Was he elected?

The stuff on the 'international meetings' you've mentioned. How many attended these 'meetings' do you think?

New Labour? The parrot is no more, it's deceased, dead.....

What comes next Chuck is decided by forces beyond mine, or your control. You never know, it might include further 'meetings'?

Hoping for a 'left version of the BNP' is not a 'tack', i'll be following thanks.

The meetings? Don't know, depends on the lefts periphery and contacts.

So if a left wing version of the BNP isn't the way forward what is?

 

[The39thStep]

It is what you mean by the 'left' though?

You focus on the far-left and specifically the SWP. It's an obsession.

They're doing dismally in electoral terms - they always have.

What do you mean by the left ? New Labour?

 

[butchersapron]

That appears to be what he says in post #90

 

[JimPage]

Tomorrow will show once and for all whether there is a need to fill the vacuum with something else to stop fascism at all, or whether antifascism alone can stop the BNP

 

[tbaldwin]

The meetings? Don't know, depends on the lefts periphery and contacts.

So if a left wing version of the BNP isn't the way forward what is?

What does a left wing version of the BNP actually mean? They are not such a great example are they?
They may get a seat or two ( especially on the back of the expenses row) but really how succesful are they?
Largely they are politically irrelevant stuck out on the political fringes.
Surely a better example for the Left to copy would be UKIP.

 

[belboid]

Surely a better example for the Left to copy would be UKIP.

what? Utter irrelvance for 3.9 years and then leaping into the spotlight for a single election? I suppose they do have the advantage of splits and orange faced loons involved, but otherwise....

I do actually agree that the idea of a 'left wing BNP' is an almost entirely meaningless one tho, sounds nice (in a way) but is actually almost entirely devoid of meaning, except for being vaguely praiseworthy of the fascists.

 

[treelover]

Why the sad face? Without communities there will be NO revolution. End of story. If you don't know your neighbours well enough to be looking out for them and them for you, what the fuck are you in this for? You're failing at the first step IMO.

Absolutely Bluey, I was recently talking with a woman who works with older pensioners and she said many of them were lonely isolated and in dire straits, many of these were WW2 war veterans as well: a disgrace and one that shames us all, but especially the Left who should be their natural allies.

 

[butchersapron]

That's actually what Chilango was saying.

 

[butchersapron]

A well titled piece in todays Guardian:

BNP ready to fill Labour vacuum in Stoke

 

[audiotech]

What do you mean by the left ? New Labour?

According to the BNP 'New Labour' is 'Marxist'.

I'm talking about the left that still exists within the Labour party, not the PLP btw; and those who give it support on the ground.

Those lefty's who despite everything still will not break with Labourism.

 

[audiotech]

The meetings? Don't know, depends on the lefts periphery and contacts.

So if a left wing version of the BNP isn't the way forward what is?

They were small meetings of revolutionary socialists and others.

The way forward is building a radical, left opposition, based in workplaces and communities.

 

[chilango]

Why the sad face? Without communities there will be NO revolution. End of story. If you don't know your neighbours well enough to be looking out for them and them for you, what the fuck are you in this for? You're failing at the first step IMO.

Cos it is sad. I don't know my neighbours now, and I haven't for a long long time. Most people I know are i a similar position. I find this state of affairs fundamentally upsetting regardless of any revolution.

 

[LLETSA]

The way forward is building a radical, left opposition, based in workplaces and communities.

 

[durruti02]

indeed i think the sun got ot him

 

[audiotech]

It would be a suprise if I'd held a Labour party members card like your good self.

 

[sevenstars]

Well that depends on the community, its often the case that people with money, businesses, even religious types are more influential there too.

Back to the original post, the IWCA were always very good at highlighting the failures of the left, and their analysis was often original.

What they were less good at was building a movement from their analysis, any explanation why?

 

[The39thStep]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/03/michael-white-british-national-party-stoke

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Back to the original post, the IWCA were always very good at highlighting the failures of the left, and their analysis was often original.

What they were less good at was building a movement from their analysis, any explanation why?

Building a movement is harder than having an analysis. For anyone, but especially for an organisation with few resources.

 

[The39thStep]

Building a movement is harder than having an analysis. For anyone, but especially for an organisation with few resources.

I tried to make this point about capacity but the neo trot Belboid poo pooed it

 

[belboid]

I tried to make this point about capacity but the neo trot Belboid poo pooed it

No need to make things up, just cos you have neither an analysis nor a movement Steptoe.

(Pointing out that if 'capacity' is an issue, then maybe there is something wrong with a strategy isn't 'poo pooing' it lad, its making a criticism. Something you are rather rubbish at responding to)

 

[LLETSA]

It would be a suprise if I'd held a Labour party members card like your good self.

Do you ever get tired of chanting the same mantras and cliches over and over without anything much ever happening?

Give us the one about socialism or barbarism again.

 

[LLETSA]

No need to make things up, just cos you have neither an analysis nor a movement Steptoe.

(Pointing out that if 'capacity' is an issue, then maybe there is something wrong with a strategy isn't 'poo pooing' it lad, its making a criticism. Something you are rather rubbish at responding to)

Belboid is MC5s underpaid bag carrier.

Or is it the other way round?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

(Pointing out that if 'capacity' is an issue, then maybe there is something wrong with a strategy isn't 'poo pooing' it lad, its making a criticism. Something you are rather rubbish at responding to)

Criticism is fine, but pointing out that implementing the strategy has been hard work which has not paid off as much as people would like is hardly earth-shattering.

I imagine the IWCA is already aware of that. I know that Hackney Independent is.

 

[belboid]

Belboid is MC5s underpaid bag carrier.

Or is it the other way round?

only for the hard of thinking, like your good self.

You make a good pair, get posterbynumbers to join in and you could be the three stooges. never respond to criticism, only sneer and pat yourselves on the back with the sheer hilarity of your smartarse answers.

 

[belboid]

Criticism is fine, but pointing out that implementing the strategy has been hard work which has not paid off as much as people would like is hardly earth-shattering.

well quite. which is why Steptoes comments are shallow and all but worthless.

Asking just why it hasn't paid off as much as hoped is the important bit, and i just dont see that happening, beyond grotesquely simplistic mentions of 'capacity issues' (a nice council style meaningless phrase that one)

 

[LLETSA]

only for the hard of thinking, like your good self.

You make a good pair, get posterbynumbers to join in and you could be the three stooges. never respond to criticism, only sneer and pat yourselves on the back with the sheer hilarity of your smartarse answers.

Haven't you got a tail to be chasing?

 

[belboid]

pot/kettle

 

[Fozzie Bear]

well quite. which is why Steptoes comments are shallow and all but worthless.

Asking just why it hasn't paid off as much as hoped is the important bit, and i just dont see that happening, beyond grotesquely simplistic mentions of 'capacity issues' (a nice council style meaningless phrase that one)

I'm sure it is happening, but perhaps not here to any useful degree.

 

[asbestos]

Asking just why it hasn't paid off as much as hoped is the important bit

To answer this seriously will only lead to misanthropy.

 

[belboid]

I'm sure it is happening, but perhaps not here to any useful degree.

not on here! such discussons should surely take place in front of all the class