Feminism - where are the threads?

[abstract1]

I said Bristol Uni have up some posters that they had had up and had then taken down (apparently very quickly. Hoorah young women objected I hope). The point was what was on the posters and how there is a strong push inside that Uni for an ideology I do not believe in. I referenced the student no platforming people. They were successful with one and did not manage the other. I linked to articles in this or another thread. This was all to do with my objection to mixed sex toilets and then my stating correctly that a paper that had been linked to say there is nothing wrong with mixed sex toilets was probably to be taken with a pinch of salt. I was right. The paper was tosh.

And the issue I raised was never addressed and as I have said several times now. This is probably not the forum to discuss it. It was never my intention to discuss these issues. I do not want to contribute to what I have read are schisms and most importantly broken friendships.

You’ve said a lot of things...

 

[JudithB]

You’ve said a lot of things...

So sue me

 

[abstract1]

So sue me

Retro comeback - blunt.

 

[JudithB]

Its been going on half a century, when radical feminists in the states sent death threats to trans women and turned up with guns to threaten a trans woman. It continued into the 80s when Sheila Jefreys and her cronies tried to expel trans women (and bisexual people and the wrong kind of lesbians) from the London Lesbian and Gay Centre, it rumbled on through the 90s and the birth of the internet when blogs like twansphobic were doxing trans people and humiliating them online, and when the GRA was introduced Jeffreys and co made much about how it was the end of womanhood and all the fears that are being raised about self ID now were then raised about GRAs. The only reason it didn't fly in a more mainstream way is that you didn't have Murdoch on your side then.

Trans people endured decades of organised abuse and harassment from a certain branch of radical feminism with virtually no pushback, to pretend this row just emerged when you heard of it shows a (probably willfully) ignorant of the history of your own movement.

I missed this. I do apologise. Picky perked my attention.

If you will take your history from revisionist sites such as Transadvocates and it's follow on "theTERFS" you are going to be feel angry. This revisionist bullshit has been around since 2013/14.

 

[abstract1]

I missed this. I do apologise. Picky perked my attention.

If you will take your history from revisionist sites such as Transadvocates and it's follow on "theTERFS" you are going to be feel angry. This revisionist bullshit has been around since 2013/14.

You really are quite the cunt, aren’t you?

 

[JudithB]

I don't think we are going to agree on some things Judith but I do want you to know you don't have to put up with this shit.

And if I said half the appalling things you guys say to me you'd burn me at the stake. There's a reason for that. Begins with P...something...arch...

What is that word?

 

[abstract1]

And if I said half the appalling things you guys say to me you'd burn me at the stake. There's a reason for that. Begins with P...something...arch...

What is that word?

Immersed in the drama triangle much?

 

[JudithB]

No drama

Although you guys keep trying to put me there

 

[abstract1]

No drama

Although you guys keep trying to put me there

Not even close to a chess move - crack on, Judith!

 

[JudithB]

How many men have come on this thread to slag me off? I'm starting to lose count

 

[abstract1]

How many men have come on this thread to slag me off? I'm starting to lose count

Telling...

 

[Treacle Toes]

Telling...

Telling of what exactly?

 

[abstract1]

Telling of what exactly?

That JudithB is assuming men, when perhaps there aren’t men...

I’ll make no apology - I think JudithB isn’t who they present themselves to be.

 

[JudithB]

You know exactly who I am
I am a feminist who wants to talk feminism with other female people
i am a feminist who is critical of gender ideology
I am a feminist who because she cares about women doesn't want to hurt any friendships more than they have been
That's me
You all know it
But you keep finding different ways to call me names or a liar

 

[Humberto]

We have to have some semblance of fair play/good faith discussion, otherwise its just throwing mud. Sorry but that is the only way I know to advance a debate/disagreement. In other words, some of yas seem a bit convinced that they are right and hang the consequences. Trying to encircle eachother with like-minded internet arguers, talking down to each other with disdain. What happened to building an argument yourself, instead of confrontation and chastisement?

You/everyone is only going to end up disappointed, because its a shit use of the medium that is this website. Unless you do want trench warfare. Be a bit more responsible. Its not a hobby or like joining a gang at school. Sometimes you have to think back to the basic principles that underpin your politics/worldview.

Now I realise I have pissed everyone off: both 'sides' and lots of individuals. I happen to value this website highly. So anyone who tells me to fuck off, consider it returned to you. Anyway, politics/life isn't easy, I suggest you wind your necks in. Or fuck off. Either ones fine. We all are in the same boat to some extent, that is the basic truth. We are all fucked (individually, societally) if we don't pull together. Be good to people and they will be good to you. Be honest and reasonable and the same.

 

[ginger_syn]

You know exactly who I am
I am a feminist who wants to talk feminism with other female people
i am a feminist who is critical of gender ideology
I am a feminist who because she cares about women doesn't want to hurt any friendships more than they have been
That's me
You all know it
But you keep finding different ways to call me names or a liar

Because you keep handing people reason too on a plate with garnish.

 

[Pickman's model]

I said Bristol Uni have up some posters that they had had up and had then taken down (apparently very quickly. Hoorah young women objected I hope). The point was what was on the posters and how there is a strong push inside that Uni for an ideology I do not believe in. I referenced the student no platforming people. They were successful with one and did not manage the other. I linked to articles in this or another thread. This was all to do with my objection to mixed sex toilets and then my stating correctly that a paper that had been linked to say there is nothing wrong with mixed sex toilets was probably to be taken with a pinch of salt. I was right. The paper was tosh.

And the issue I raised was never addressed and as I have said several times now. This is probably not the forum to discuss it. It was never my intention to discuss these issues. I do not want to contribute to what I have read are schisms and most importantly broken friendships.

You said "bu have these posters up". They don't. E2A the link you posted led to a story published in the telegraph in 2014 which says they were put up for a campaigning week

 

[JudithB]

You said "bu have these posters up". They don't. E2A the link you posted led to a story published in the telegraph in 2014 which says they were put up for a campaigning week

I haven't and what I said above says I said they have up posters

Picky can you stop this now it really doesn't prove what you want it to and I think you might be starting to look like a bully

 

[Pickman's model]

I haven't and what I said above says I said they have up posters

Picky can you stop this now it really doesn't prove what you want it to and I think you might be starting to look like a bully

Sorry I missed this.

No I did not ignore your point. I made the point that the single sex exemptions are being ignored, see Bristol University for one who have posters in the female toilets stating if you think someone should not be there, get over it, pretty much

bristol university gender neutral toilets picture - Google Search:

[...]

We've derailed the thread again. I will read the doc you linked. I will also be honest and say it comes from Bristol University who have the posters linked to above

"the posters linked to above"

 

[ElizabethofYork]

This is unpleasant.

 

[Edie]

I don't think we are going to agree on some things Judith but I do want you to know you don't have to put up with this shit.

Absolutely, this.

This is unpleasant.

Yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is unpleasant.

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[Edie]

Yes. Yes it is.

Then stop it. Bullying and hounding someone, regardless of their views, is horrible. Just stop. Please.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Picky can you stop this now it really doesn't prove what you want it to and I think you might be starting to look like a bully

He"s known for this kind of pedantic, scab picking harassment. It's nothing new.

 

[trashpony]

He"s known for this kind of pedantic, scab picking harassment. It's nothing new.

Yep, that’s true. It’s not exclusive to JudithB- just a tedious modus operandi

 

[Pickman's model]

He"s known for this kind of pedantic, scab picking harassment. It's nothing new.

Yep, that’s true. It’s not exclusive to JudithB- just a tedious modus operandi

soz, it's not pedantry to say of a substantive claim and not a facet thereof 'this is not true' and give reasons for that conclusion. It is tedious to be met with a blank refusal to face the actualité and so to repeat myself. You might both show better solidarity with poor JudithB to show I'm factually wrong here than to continue with the same tired hounding which is condemned a couple of posts up - play the ball if you can

 

[Edie]

soz, it's not pedantry to say of a substantive claim and not a facet thereof 'this is not true' and give reasons for that conclusion. It is tedious to be met with a blank refusal to face the actualité and so to repeat myself. You might both show better solidarity with poor JudithB to show I'm factually wrong here than to continue with the same tired hounding which is condemned a couple of posts up - play the ball if you can

Pickmans I honestly not saying this to be a bitch, but most people just don’t work like this. They just don’t see the world like this. They are able to temper being ‘entirely factually correct’ with nuance and social skills.

Going after one thing like a dog with lock jaw isn’t helpful to either side. Honestly it’s not. Maybe you just really can’t see this. I think fundamentally your a decent bloke. You just lock on to shit almost as a proxy for actually thinking about the substantive stuff. But it totally comes across as a kind of slightly disturbing, obsessive bullying at times.

 

[andysays]

I'm not sure that "bullying" is the word I would use for challenging the dishonesty of someone attempting to push a transphobic agenda, albeit mostly couched in terms of an appeal to women and feminism, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that some have chosen to focus on the method of challenging rather than the substance of what's being challenged.

 

[JudithB]

Again you have made the assumption that my wanting to talk about feminism is an attempt to push a transphobic agenda. Women are allowed to talk about feminism without it being about trans people.

Any attempt to challenge the substance of what I might say will very quickly become an excuse for you to shout bigot and transphobe. I have opinions. I look at evidence and have drawn conclusions. If some one was to offer me other evidence I would look at it and possibly draw other conclusions. Nothing remotely connected to the topic is discussed afaik without it quickly becoming personal name calling. I shall "curate" this thread and make it the Come and Call Me a Bigot and Transphobe thread. If you want to call me a man, someone you previously had beef with or any other manner of descriptors, here's the place to do it. I hope that makes everyone feel better.

(Victim, hysterical they're good to go words too)

 

[andysays]

Again you have made the assumption that my wanting to talk about feminism is an attempt to push a transphobic agenda. Women are allowed to talk about feminism without it being about trans people.

Any attempt to challenge the substance of what I might say will very quickly become an excuse for you to shout bigot and transphobe. I have opinions. I look at evidence and have drawn conclusions. If some one was to offer me other evidence I would look at it and possibly draw other conclusions. Nothing remotely connected to the topic is discussed afaik without it quickly becoming personal name calling. I shall "curate" this thread and make it the Come and Call Me a Bigot and Transphobe thread. If you want to call me a man, someone you previously had beef with or any other manner of descriptors, here's the place to do it. I hope that makes everyone feel better.

(Victim, hysterical they're good to go words too)

More dishonesty. You haven't avoided talking about trans people, you have made explicitly transphobic posts, while complaining about being 'silenced'.