Ive been told to shut up. But surely you can see that there’s no absolute here. I’m in agreement with about 95% of feminist theory btw, and I’m surprised that me making a couple of class based points met with a lot of resistance, but there we are.
Feminism - where are the threads?
- Thread starter JudithB
- Start date
Ive been told to shut up. But surely you can see that there’s no absolute here. I’m in agreement with about 95% of feminist theory btw, and I’m surprised that me making a couple of class based points met with a lot of resistance, but there we are.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
on the evidences of recent posts here, I’d say there’s a significant chance that’s the case.
Not fair to keep engaging me after I’ve been slapped down but, my points are all there to read up thread.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Because class doesn’t trump sexism.
It just doesn’t.
Otherwise there’d be no glass ceilings, no middle class women being oppressed and abused in their own homes, no issues with CEOs bringing their children into work or breastfeeding in meetings.
ffs
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I wasn’t even talking about Sexism. Please understand my points if you want to attack them rather than invent ones to attack.
Athos
Well-Known Member
A lot of feminist theory is at odds with other feminist theory, so it's hard to see how anyone could be in agreement with 95% of it!
The class-based points you made were met with resistance because they were very silly. Of course those who are oppressed on one basis can oppress others on another basis. And of course trying to prevent the oppression of women needn't be at odds with class politics (indeed, no class politics worth its name would fail to encompass it). I've no time for identity politics, but your crude attempts to frame any attempt to tackle the oppression of women specifically as identity politics, such that it's at odds with class politics, are a bit shit.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I don’t see you retracting or agreeing, i see you stepping aside for the ladeez.
I see you standings by your points, but reluctant to defend them for fear of being scolded by the shrews, the shrill call of the feminissst.
What I mean is that I don’t see any change in your thinking or agreement with the several women who have had the same reaction. I only see you digging into your position.
I’m so so sick of this shit.
Why do you (not all men etc) get the righteous right to define and assume that if a woman challenges what you say or the position that your words imply, the fault is with the woman’s understanding, not the man’s opinion.
“Fair enough” is the same as saying “whatever”
Which is what I said earlier to man who was doing this exact thing of stepping back rather not than really engaging with the criticism.
Whatever.
I’m so bored, really, so so bored of seeing men retreat from this criticism rather than trying to understand it.
So y’know, pardon my lack of intellectual reference points and autodidactic credentials here, but this kind of exchange serves as a pure example of all that stuff that theory expounds upon.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Your point was that oppression is about money and power, and within the current circumstances, men women children are all under the cosh. That men who are abused and oppressed are no better off than any one else who is under the boot.
Or have I got my pretty little head muddled about that.
Thanks for telling me my points were ‘silly’, I guess that’s what happens when your position is based in theory rather than the real world? Do you think that might explain things to you?
Yeah, that’s what I think.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I’m agreeing that you can invent whatever you want about me.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Lol.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
^ that's a rhetorical smiley btw, I know exactly what's happening
Mate, you’re a caricature. Laugh all you like.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
If you want to set up a tally system, where we all get anti-points and dark stars for the level of oppression we experience then please go right ahead.
Meanwhile, over here in the real world, women who are under the same fucking cosh that you are are also under the invisible steel toe capped boot that you don’t even know you’re wielding.
Women are perhaps better than men at accessing help (social, friendships, actually going to see the sodding GP) but that’s partly because we’ve been forced by circumstances to go outside the immediate relarionship to find help.
Look this doesn’t do of us any good, this carping.
Men are also also also fucked by the system. But it is shitty bullshit for you to get onto a feminist thread to say “what about the menz, the system fucks us too”.
ffs
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Remind me how this suddenly became all about Magnus McGinty, his landlady, female manager and - apparently - penis?
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Is it just gender that you think is irrelevant beyond class when defining oppression? How about race? Sexuality? Disability?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I remember agreeing to drop it where-upon several posters made sure I couldn’t.
Which is it?
Which is it?
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Yeah, you're right. Best to drop it.
I did try...
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Why though?
killer b told him to stop the tedious shit. So then he said he would.
But the tedious shit is a really good example of the tedious shit we have to put up with in normal everyday exchanges.
And now he’s been challenged, and he’s retreating, and asking to be permitted to retreat.
And being given permission to retreat.
I’m not wanting to I have a go (believe it or not) but I’m interested in this exchange being a good example of the sort of tedious petty stuff that makes up the ground floor of patriarchal exchanges in daily life.
It’s not always a warzone, is it. It’s more usually normal conversation and banal interactions that support, enable and reiterate the problem. Because it’s the status quo. And we all play our part in supporting enabling and reiterating it.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
But I’ll leave it there.
I’m also interested as to why my fairly obvious and not particularly contentious point got attacked. But there we are.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
oh jesus fuck can we just not
I promised not to. Control others.
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