Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[ska invita]

Have you ever read Ionesco's Rhinoceros? It's about people you think you know, turning into something you wish they hadn't.

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that does sound really interesting

Rhinoceros (play) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rhinoceros (French: Rhinocéros) is a play by playwright Eugène Ionesco, written in 1959. The play was included in Martin Esslin's study of post-war avant-garde drama The Theatre of the Absurd, although scholars have also rejected this label as too interpretatively narrow.[citation needed]

Over the course of three acts, the inhabitants of a small, provincial French town turn into rhinoceroses; ultimately the only human who does not succumb to this mass metamorphosis is the central character, Bérenger, a flustered everyman figure who is initially criticized in the play for his drinking, tardiness, and slovenly lifestyle and then, later, for his increasing paranoia and obsession with the rhinoceroses. The play is often read as a response and criticism to the sudden upsurge of Fascism and Nazism during the events preceding World War II, and explores the themes of conformity, culture, fascism, responsibility, logic, mass movements, mob mentality, philosophy and morality.

 

[GarveyLives]

What the hell is going on?

Maybe he - and others like him - needs to focus less on his fears about 'Brown' and / or 'Black' men with "large poles", and focus more on the real world in which he lives:

England riots: how has ‘two-tier policing’ myth become widespread?

 

[Weller]

Holy fuck monkeys! That is mind-blowingly good.

Who do I tip?

The far lefty A.I robots I guess

 

[NoXion]

Was it this one?

Police under pressure after failing to stop armed Muslim counter-protesters during riots

A man has been arrested after TV footage showed a suspect apparently armed with a samurai sword at a counter-protest organised by a Muslim community group in Birmingham.

news.sky.com

Could have been. I don't know what he watches or where he gets his news from. I'm hoping that it's Sky which can be a bit shit but at least isn't some Tommy Robinson sewage pipe.

I saw that video. This is from memory from one watch so apologies if not perfect recall.

Basically the coppers were advancing towards the FR on horses, the FR were moving back. Shortly afterwards a load of lads appeared behind the coppers and it became apparent they were mostly/all young Asian men.

Soon after this (almost immediately), the cops stopped moving towards the FR and held a position between the FR and the Asian lads stopping the 2 groups from meeting for a civilised exchange of views.

If anything they held back the Asian lads so it is a very selective interpretation of what I saw. I don't think the cops even knew the Asian lads were there to begin with.

Thanks for your input. Is it possible that edited versions of the video may have been passed around on social media?

The two tier claim effectively sets up a them and us mindset, states preferential treatment for ‘them’, and plugs into beliefs of conspiracy by those in power against ‘us’.

It’s the far right lens.

In one sense immigration does favour the elite (the ‘economy’) at the expense of those at the bottom who perceive themselves quite fairly as being in competition for resources. The error is blaming immigrants themselves, and the evil is spin is the added racism of it being due to ‘their’ culture or the colour of their skin.

He mainly seemed angry at the idea that people wielding poles and blades were been getting special treatment, and he seemed to think that the media were in on it too. I thought of bringing up the hotels and library being set on fire by the right-wing goons, but I feared that may have lead to confrontation considering he was fresh off being given shit by the DWP.

Wait for him to climb back out? Depends on how deep he is in. Some will slowly see sense. One thing I imagine would be quite useful is not necessarily challenging the content but talking to him instead about rabbit holes, grifters, and how it’s so easy to see just one side. He might then get the sense, after he’s served his 100th video of shite, that the medium is often the problem not the message. But if I was in that situation is stepping away, sticking to your guns, and giving him the space to find his own way. The problem is that so much content is emotional satisfying it’s boring and annoying for someone to climb out. The kick from charged video after charged video…

That said the fash might have always been inside him, slowly forming. He might just have cuntish and bleak views of humanity already and for that the road is even longer, with perhap no end it to it all.

Keep your side of the street clean and stick to your own values. Sometimes “modelling” is all we can do.

For as long as I've known him he's seemed like a decent bloke politically speaking, railing against the Tories and the shit they've gotten up to with the benefits system. But I fear that his brother may have been a recent bad influence. Since maybe the past year or so when he comes around, I've kept hearing about his brother getting into fucking stupid fights with Asian lads. I've thought about discussing that on this forum, but it looks like I might have left things too late. His brother seemed like a decent bloke too, before I started hearing about the stupid fights at least.

Maybe he - and others like him - needs to focus less on his fears about 'Brown' and / or 'Black' men with "large poles", and focus more on the real world in which he lives:

England riots: how has ‘two-tier policing’ myth become widespread?

For sure. I've not been following events super-closely and thus was not prepared to address such claims, especially in a heated moment.

 

[Edie]

to be fair trying to set a hotel on fire with people inside it is pretty much up there on the dreadful side of things

As is listing the nationalities of your servants as a virtue signal.

 

[Edie]

Those white working class people are so awful compared to our new compliant servants.

 

[The39thStep]

The acceptable and completely oblivious side of the problem. Not like those dreadful people in Rotherham.

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If only Rotherham had a Waitrose branch and a branch of M&S with their 'very varied' staff recruitment programme.

 

[ska invita]

As is listing the nationalities of your servants as a virtue signal.

not comparable to burning people alive tbf

 

[Edie]

not comparable to burning people alive tbf

I’m not the one comparing

 

[Edie]

I’m saying the two are linked

 

[RD2003]

I don't know if this is the right thread for this. But I've just had a rather disturbing conversation with my flat mate. After venting to me about the crappy treatment he was getting a the hands of the DWP, he went on to be agitated about "two tier policing" and claiming that there are videos of "Muslims" with big poles and machetes being given favourable treatment by the police, including one video showing these guys following mounted police when they charged the "English protesters". He seems to think that the police are being told to treat "the Muslims" with kid gloves. He further claimed that the media is suppressing the evidence of these things by not showing them.

I've never seen any of these videos. I feel like he's plugged into an alternate pipeline for news and views of these events. It was really quite disturbing. What the hell is going on?

I've written before, in other threads, about how I've noticed this kind of thing in people who were previously politically and personally ok.

Decades of neo-liberal economics and the marketisation of society has worn down class solidarity and even any wider sense of a shared reality, and rhe resulting alienation is now magnified by social media-which actually gives the racists and outright fascists the chance to present themselves as those with the ability to bring people together under the idea of rebuilding a common culture that's been eroded down the years. I doubt if the most political among them actually believe the 'Great Replacement' shit, but it gives them an opening, and a chance to bring their anti-immigrant agenda to a much wider audience. The conspiracist mindset is a gift to hard-headed racists, and the neo-hippy/New Age belief that Covid was a plot by 'Them' seems to have gifted them a pool of new sympathisers.

Given the degree of social isolation, the downgrading of class politics, and that social media is not going away, it's hard to know what to do about it. You can talk to people, if you have the patience, but they can just fuck off back to Youtube and the crank websites they've been suckered into habitually viewing.

 

[ska invita]

I’m saying the two are linked

what is the link between that tweet and actively trying to kill people?

 

[DaveCinzano]

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Ive been wondering whats happening in the south east....medway towns and so on....essex coast....call outs have been mainly in northern towns but its not like the south is immune from all this

whats upsetting most about this tweet is whereas EDL (and the like) has been around a long time its clearly reaching a new younger audience - of course this tweet is one incident and we know teenage and old boys are lapping up rightwing social media content, the viewing and attitude stats have shown that for a while now

Plenty of racists all over the shop, ‘even’ West Kent. Even genteel Sevenoaks hosted (badly) that Generation Identity conference a few years back.

The misery of Generation Identity Conference - Freedom News

Last weekend fascists from alt- right group Generation Identity held the ‘European Reunion’ conference in London. The main purpose of the conference was to increase their presence in the UK. Generation Identity, Europe’s answer to alt- right movement in the US, originates in France. In short...

freedomnews.org.uk

 

[Epona]

People who work in supermarkets, shops, banks, restaurants etc. are not "servants"
Jesus fucking christ.

 

[Edie]

what is the link between that tweet and actively trying to kill people?

I already explained it.

In one sense immigration does favour the elite (the ‘economy’) at the expense of those at the bottom who perceive themselves quite fairly as being in competition for resources. The error is blaming immigrants themselves, and the evil spin is the added racism of it being due to ‘their’ culture or the colour of their skin.

It’s the “who will serve my latte in Pret after Brexit” bullshit.

Immigration serves Islingtonian women. It doesn’t serve women in Rotherham.

 

[ska invita]

You can talk to people, if you have the patience, but they can just fuck off back to Youtube and the crank websites they've been suckered into habitually viewing.

Does surprisingly little in my experience....its almost like theres no way back unless people get their themselves.
I've got a case of this in my close family and its really upsetting....started with antivax stuff quickly on to altright shite, all from twitter.....Ive tried to talk them back for hours on end ...topic for a separate thread i think

Plenty of racists all over the shop, ‘even’ West Kent.

of yeah i know all too well , i was wondering out loud where they were at last couple of weeks though

 

[ska invita]

It’s the “who will serve my latte in Pret after Brexit” bullshit.

I'm with you on that one and the thoughts of Baroness Ludford, Liberal Democrat member of the House of Lords, are to be expected, but I'm not letting anyone off for being a violent racist

 

[Edie]

I'm with you on that one and the thoughts of Baroness Ludford, Liberal Democrat member of the House of Lords, are to be expected, but I'm not letting anyone off for being a violent racist

Neither am I.

 

[RD2003]

Does surprisingly little in my experience....its almost like theres no way back unless people get their themselves.
I've got a case of this in my close family and its really upsetting....started with antivax stuff quickly on to altright shite, all from twitter.....Ive tried to talk them back for hours on end ...topic for a separate thread i think

Yes, it's a fascinating, if disturbing phenomenon, and still related to this thread if only because this is a major way that the racists and fascists are bound to continue gaining an audience in the future.

I've had one or two people who claim to have had bad reactions from the Covid vaccines sending me all sorts of stuff over Whatsapp, for instance. When I pointed out to one of them that it was an interview with a growingly notorius anti-semite and racist, she just said something along the lines of, 'Er, yeah, I know that, but I think that on this subject....' These are not kids either, but middle-aged fuckers.

There was a documentary series on BBC Sounds a while back about what had been happening in 'hippy town' Totnes, where people were saying that when known fascists appeared there in the anti-vax/ anti-lockdown protests there were many standing with them who last time they turned up were on the opposite side of the line, and used to be your typical 'alternative' libertarian. They no doubt believe they still are libertarians.

 

[RD2003]

It's no doubt been discussed before in other threads, but here we are.



'In its pages and on its corresponding Telegram channels, the Light has shared hateful and violent rhetoric towards journalists, medics and MPs, as well as platforming far-right figures accused of antisemitism.'

'On Telegram, the paper has also shared and endorsed content from UK far-right groups including Patriotic Alternative, promoting rallies and posts talking about the "replacement" of white people and asking people to "#GetInvolved"'

'The Light's editor, Darren Nesbit, is based near Manchester. He agreed to speak to me, only on the condition that he can ask me questions andrecord the interview too.

For him, everything from financial turmoil to climate change and 9/11terror attacks in the US are part of a plan by governments to control and harm our lives. He thinks the pandemic was just one step towards doing that.'


The Light: Inside the UK’s conspiracy theory newspaper that shares violence and hate

 

[BigMoaner]

I think this [weakening of] “shared reality” idea that gets banded about here and elsewhere has some legs tbh. Something is deinitely changing in the way that people interact and engage with major social and political narratives largely due to their media consumption habits. You could say this was always the way but hmmm I don’t think so. Let me take an old political enemy maybe 20 years ago and he read: the telegraph, the spectator and maybe certain LBC shows. I still felt that I somehow knew what page he was on. Or how he likely viewed major talking points. This made engaging with him predictable, maybe even sometimes enjoyable. Now, I get lost trying to work out where people are at, especially political “enemies”.

I think because there was so little media at one point the gap it left became a “shared reality” somewhat, now there is no “gap” because it’s been consumed by endless content? Each of us has our own “page” that is shaped by content, but if there’s little or no content - other than say 5 or 6 newspapers - then there is no page and when there is no page there is a “shared reality”?

Something has definitely changed but whether that change has “broken”something that shouldn’t have been broken is a scary but hopefully unnecessary thought.

 

[BigMoaner]

TLDR we are all in our little bubbles. Even when there’s solidarity all the bubbles briefly come togheter but bubbles they are even in that act and bubbles they will remain. Reality has been bubblefied.

 

[BigMoaner]

when I say “dis” you say “topia”

 

[ska invita]

I'm with you on that one and the thoughts of Baroness Ludford, Liberal Democrat member of the House of Lords, are to be expected, but I'm not letting anyone off for being a violent racist

Neither am I.

you are, you're defending them, you're trying to minimise the horrific actions of a tiny bunch of fascist and far-right thugs with your sarcastic "dreadful people in Rotherham" - the people who pulled people out of cars, attacked mosques and set hotels on fire are scum and you're justifying their murderous actions with "Immigration serves Islingtonian women. It doesn’t serve women in Rotherham." , as in framing this as people just acting out "legitimate concerns" and:

Those white working class people are so awful compared to our new compliant servants.

Not sure who you mean by "new compliant servants" - any Person of Colour who works? Let us know if thats what you meant.
It's nothing to do with "white working class people " and everything to do with violent and semi-organised fascists, racists and their hangers-on, part of a historic well-funded political-racist ideology thats currently running rampant across europe and beyond. And my experience of people like this in the south east is they're often comfortable financially, they just enjoy violence and are racist. Plenty of very rich people subscribe to this too, even if they dont get their fists bloodied

 

[comrade spurski]

Maybe it is in this moment and more than fuck 'em, they need to be confronted, physically or otherwise. They need to be stopped for all sorts of reasons, including the risk of serious injury and death among their targets. But 'fuck 'em' is an end of conversation, it just leaves them as the monsters, away from liberal society. 'Fuck 'em' doesn't take us anywhere better.

there are plenty of discussions and actions that need to take place regarding employment opportunities, education, NHS, housing, political scapegoating, mental health, addiction etc. But there are those who are expressing some sympathy for some protestors due to there addictions or being a victim of domestic violence as a child or adult. It is in this context that fuck em is a reasonable response

 

[comrade spurski]

Those white working class people are so awful compared to our new compliant servants.

Sorry but why are those working who are "new" servants whereas whites are working class??????

 

[krtek a houby]

Sorry but why are those working who are "new" servants whereas whites are working class??????

the mask slipped

 

[Pickman's model]

Immigration serves Islingtonian women. It doesn’t serve women in Rotherham.

rotherham nhs trust interim diversity and equality report december 2022 https://www.therotherhamft.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2023-04/Interim Annual Equality and Diversity Report 2022.pdf

as you can see, white people (uk) make up 92% of the nhs trust area's population. yet are under-represented in the workforce. minority populations are over-represented as a proportion of the nhs workforce. obviously many of them will have been born in the uk, but whether their parents or grandparents were is not recorded in the document. however, it's fair to say that without immigration the nhs would be struggling even more than it is. so for me the presence of immigrants and their children and grandchildren in the nhs workforce in rotherham is one way in which immigration is benefitting women in rotherham. and men too, for that matter. some of those rotherham women will also be of african, caribbean or asian heritage, but your post doesn't seem to acknowledge they exist. it's like there are only white women in rotherham for you.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sorry but why are those working who are "new" servants whereas whites are working class??????

Couched in terms like that it looks more than anything like a fairly blatant nod towards (ugh) Great Replacement Theory.

But obviously nobody would be espousing that here ... would they?

 

[polly]

Edie certainly doesn't need me to put words in her mouth but that's not how I read her at all. There's zero understanding of anti racism or class solidarity shown by listing all the foreigners in service industries that you see every day (other than Italian neighbour but let's be honest, no one is coming for the Italians). It is a totally London centric, middle class point of view to think you are everything that's great about multiculturalism when all you're doing is rubbing shoulders with non UK born people in the shops and praising yourself for it. It helps no one but her. Smacks of those white Americans and South Africans who say oh we had a black nanny growing up but she was part of the family. And who says Rumanian ffs.

Obviously she is not as disgusting as the people rioting and trying to burn down a hotel but she's part of the problem too.

I'm going into my one to one so please don't accuse me of fascist sympathies as I'll already be fragile.