Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[Kevbad the Bad]

Immigration serves Islingtonian women. It doesn’t serve women in Rotherham.

What is it with Islington anyway? (Apart from the tofu-eating elites?)

 

[BigMoaner]

What is it with Islington anyway? (Apart from the tofu-eating elites?)

A good example is my mate who was at a posh dinner party where a lot of the people there tried to convince him that Millwall was an institutionally racist club full if racist scum, so far removed are they from the reality of millwalls working class demographic, its history of habituating in inner city poor areas, and the fact that most Millwall fans lived a vastly more multicultural life and existence than them who scarper from London as soon as their kids hit school age to give them a “better life”. You can be vehemently anti racist without all that smug, useless, clueless postering.

 

[BigMoaner]

It’s the fall out from the decline in class politics. You can swan around London supping your latte and quaffing your world cuisines whilst feeling vastly superior to everyone from bleaker, troubled areas and times. What has that got to do with on the ground anti racism?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I was born and bred in Islington. I lived on a council estate and was definitely working class, NOT posh!

 

[Plumdaff]

What is it with Islington anyway? (Apart from the tofu-eating elites?)

Islington is much poorer overall than many of its neighbouring boroughs (source - used to work for both Camden and Islington and East London NHS Trusts and it was always pointed out) but has never shaken off its late 90s association with oblivious Blairites.

 

[emanymton]

I was born and bred in Islington. I lived on a council estate and was definitely working class, NOT posh!

That's what all the posh people say.

 

[maomao]

I was born and bred in Islington. I lived on a council estate and was definitely working class, NOT posh!

Islington has some of the biggest wealth disparities in the country which means you find both the very rich and the very poor there. More so even than when you were young.

 

[mojo pixy]

Edie certainly doesn't need me to put words in her mouth but that's not how I read her at all. There's zero understanding of anti racism or class solidarity shown by listing all the foreigners in service industries that you see every day (other than Italian neighbour but let's be honest, no one is coming for the Italians). It is a totally London centric, middle class point of view to think you are everything that's great about multiculturalism when all you're doing is rubbing shoulders with non UK born people in the shops and praising yourself for it. It helps no one but her. Smacks of those white Americans and South Africans who say oh we had a black nanny growing up but she was part of the family. And who says Rumanian ffs.

Obviously she is not as disgusting as the people rioting and trying to burn down a hotel but she's part of the problem too.

I'm going into my one to one so please don't accuse me of fascist sympathies as I'll already be fragile.

My post was addressing the language used, not the person using it. Calling British working class people 'working class' in the same breath as calling foreign working class people 'servants' smacks of, at best, a double standard - but at worst .. something worse. I'm not making assumptions about a person, I'm responding directly to words I read and the context they're in.

If a poster wants to defend their words then they should, I don't think it's up to anyone to explain for another adult what they really meant. Let them explain themselves what they meant.

 

[Pickman's model]

Edie certainly doesn't need me to put words in her mouth but that's not how I read her at all. There's zero understanding of anti racism or class solidarity shown by listing all the foreigners in service industries that you see every day (other than Italian neighbour but let's be honest, no one is coming for the Italians). It is a totally London centric, middle class point of view to think you are everything that's great about multiculturalism when all you're doing is rubbing shoulders with non UK born people in the shops and praising yourself for it. It helps no one but her. Smacks of those white Americans and South Africans who say oh we had a black nanny growing up but she was part of the family. And who says Rumanian ffs.

Obviously she is not as disgusting as the people rioting and trying to burn down a hotel but she's part of the problem too.

I'm going into my one to one so please don't accuse me of fascist sympathies as I'll already be fragile.

migration has done a great deal for the country that's not frequently recognised. Take the railways and motorways, largely built by Irish migrants. London, largely built by Irish migrants and of course the Russian, the Czech and the Pole remembered in the famous song 'mcalpine's fusiliers'. And migrants have contributed vastly to culture from at least handel on. Sam selvon's lonely londoners find their counterparts throughout the country. saying migrants have done fuck all for women in Rotherham is tosh.

 

[polly]

My post was addressing the language used, not the person using it. Calling British working class people 'working class' in the same breath as calling foreign working class people 'servants' smacks of, at best, a double standard - but at worst .. something worse. I'm not making assumptions about a person, I'm responding directly to words I read and the context they're in.

If a poster wants to defend their words then they should, I don't think it's up to anyone to explain for another adult what they really meant. Let them explain themselves what they meant.

Like I said, I'm not putting words in her mouth, defending her or explaining for her. She's an intelligent woman and I'm sure will be back to do that herself. I just wanted to give my understanding of it, especially as I liked a couple of the posts.

I don't disagree with any of that Pickman's model

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

This could add another 5 pages.

 

[The39thStep]

View attachment 438235
rotherham nhs trust interim diversity and equality report december 2022 https://www.therotherhamft.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2023-04/Interim Annual Equality and Diversity Report 2022.pdf

as you can see, white people (uk) make up 92% of the nhs trust area's population. yet are under-represented in the workforce. minority populations are over-represented as a proportion of the nhs workforce. obviously many of them will have been born in the uk, but whether their parents or grandparents were is not recorded in the document. however, it's fair to say that without immigration the nhs would be struggling even more than it is. so for me the presence of immigrants and their children and grandchildren in the nhs workforce in rotherham is one way in which immigration is benefitting women in rotherham. and men too, for that matter. some of those rotherham women will also be of african, caribbean or asian heritage, but your post doesn't seem to acknowledge they exist. it's like there are only white women in rotherham for you.

Presumably, that doesn't include agency staff?

 

[Pickman's model]

This could add another 5 pages.

You remind me that rimbaud and verlaine loved and lived in England for a time

 

[Pickman's model]

Presumably, that doesn't include agency staff?

Sure it doesn't

 

[philosophical]

A good example is my mate who was at a posh dinner party where a lot of the people there tried to convince him that Millwall was an institutionally racist club full if racist scum, so far removed are they from the reality of millwalls working class demographic, its history of habituating in inner city poor areas, and the fact that most Millwall fans lived a vastly more multicultural life and existence than them who scarper from London as soon as their kids hit school age to give them a “better life”. You can be vehemently anti racist without all that smug, useless, clueless postering.

Would Millwall fans give a toss about what people say about them? They heartily sing ‘No one likes us, we don’t care’ don’t they?

 

[philosophical]

If you were a child in local authority care what class would you be labelled, working class?
A lot of my social workers might have been called Islington posh types, and they are the ones who dealt with me.

 

[The39thStep]

If you were a child in local authority care what class would you be labelled, working class?
A lot of my social workers might have been called Islington posh types, and they are the ones who dealt with me.

Data for children in care isn't classified by class

 

[planetgeli]

Those white working class people are so awful compared to our new compliant servants.

I'm not defending other things she's said but here Edie is obviously parodying the Liberal Baroness no?

 

[The39thStep]

Both Alan Legget ( Active Patriot) and Yorkshire Rose are on bail with restrictions. The former, who only recently returned from France where he and a couple of other bozos have been camping on the beach looking for migrants getting into boats, has had three phones taken off him and is banned from social media according to one report.

 

[Boo Radley75]

 

[mojo pixy]

Like I said, I'm not putting words in her mouth, defending her or explaining for her. She's an intelligent woman and I'm sure will be back to do that herself. I just wanted to give my understanding of it, especially as I liked a couple of the posts.
Pickman's model

OK then, what do you think of foreign working class people being called 'servants' l? What resonance does that carry, for you?

Even working class people sarcastically being called servants, I mean ffs, some of us are working class, and don't feel like 'servants'! I feel more solidarity with fellow care / support workers or eg shop workers, wherever they come from, than with some shouty prick trying to find a foreigner to beat.

FWIW I agree that immigration has been used by capital to undercut and control the working class, I don't think that's even a contentious point. And it's obvious that certain parts of the uk are in a really bad way because of that process. The anger about that among those communities needs to be directed where it belongs.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

FWIW I agree that immigration has been used by capital to undercut and control the working class, I don't think that's even a contentious point. And it's obvious that certain parts of the uk are in a really bad way because of that process. The anger about that among those communities needs to be directed where it belongs.

Divide and rule has always been the modus operandi.

 

[polly]

OK then, what do you think of foreign working class people being called 'servants' l? What resonance does that carry, for you?

Are you asking me to explain what she meant now? Fwiw that wasn't a post I liked, but it seemed to me pretty obvious that Edie was talking from the perspective of this woman, whose understanding of the benefits of multicultural life seems to be having a more exciting and vibrant underclass. I really don't think Edie was saying she considers anyone servants and I think tbh that's a bad faith reading of what she's posted.

Obviously I agree with you that the anger about loss of wages or whatever is directed towards the wrong people. Actually I think much of the 'anger' is just plain old racism. That's where Edie and I may diverge.

 

[mojo pixy]

Are you asking me to explain what she meant now? Fwiw that wasn't a post I liked, but it seemed to me pretty obvious that Edie was talking from the perspective of this woman, whose understanding of the benefits of multicultural life seems to be having a more exciting and vibrant underclass

Im not, I'm very specifically asking how you felt about working class people being called servants.

Now you've gone with underclass, which is an interesting word to describe people working in shops and care homes etc. As opposed to shitbags who eg burn out a citizens advice bureau.

 

[maomao]

I also read it as implicit criticism of the writer's view of the people around her rather than as Edie's view of working class people.

 

[polly]

Im not, I'm very specifically asking how you felt about working class people being called servants.

Now you've gone with underclass, which is an interesting word to describe people working in shops and care homes etc. As opposed to shitbags who eg burn out a citizens advice bureau.

Uggggh. Again, this is how I imagine this woman sees it. Are you really so unnuanced. Do you really think I think people who work in shops and care homes are an underclass. For the love of God.

 

[mojo pixy]

I also read it as implicit criticism of the writer's view of the people around her rather than as Edie's view of working class people.

It doesn't have to be either / or; 'servants' wasn't a word used in the tweet.

But it's not a person thing though. Working class are not 'servants' whoever says it, sarcastically or straight.

Uggggh. Again, this is how I imagine this woman sees it. Are you really so unnuanced. Do you really think I think people who work in shops and care homes are an underclass. For the love of God.

Why use such a word as underclass then? No, I don't get it.

 

[mojo pixy]

And why is it getting so personal? Christ on a bike.

I'm unnuanced, just because people use words they don't even mean

 

[maomao]

or; 'servants' wasn't a word used in the tweet.

Yes, it's Edie's criticism of someone who thinks it's normal to have a dressmaker and doesn't list any family or friends amongst her foreign acquaintances.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yes, it's Edie's criticism of someone who thinks it's normal to have a dressmaker and doesn't list any family or friends amongst her foreign acquaintances.

Dressmaker envy is a terrible thing