Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The second sentence is an appropriate reply to the first. the attention eb's words deserve is zero.
Eric Bristow says football abuse victims are not "proper men"
- Thread starter weltweit
- Start date
Indeed. Otherwise such attitudes remain and become (in some quarters) acceptable.
Not sure that anybody is "bending over backwards" to excuse what was said, but anyway. Regardless of what "a lot of other people" think, I would prefer to hear him try to explain what he meant before choosing to get all outraged. So far, imo, he made a number of silly comments on twitter ( I don't much care for twitter myself...partly because of this sort of nonsense ) and I don't think what he said has been worthy of the amount of attention that it has got and was better off being ignored.
Fair enough, that's your opinion, and you may have good reasons for feeling strongly and taking it personally, that's your call. As far as I'm concerned he's not important enough for me to take anything he says seriously and his comments did not deserve anything like the amount of attention that it got.
I prefer to pay FAR more attention to the brave men who courageously chose to share their experiences than to anything that Bristow said. His attitude and opinions can only get in the way if we choose to let it and in my opinion we're better off ignoring him and not giving him that much attention and instead fully supporting those who have suffered at the hands of abusers.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Just out of interest, if Bristow's comments are "silly", just what constitutes "nasty" in your view?
No, he's not important enough. But that's not the point. His comments stand (or fall) on their merits. I do take these things seriously, because it is far too close to home for me, and it is attitudes like his (not necessarily his, personally) that stopped me from disclosing for 40 years. When you tell boys (in particular) who have been abused that they have been, effectively, emasculated, unless they go and commit a criminal assault, you just reinforce those prejudices.
So even though he may be unimportant, his views - expressed across national media - are important enough to be held up to scrutiny and ridicule, and to be debunked.
I really can't understand why you're making such strenuous efforts to minimise this.
Both matter. As I've said, it is attitudes like Bristow's that have made those brave men's disclosures such a big deal.
If Bristow has done us one favour, it's to remind us that those Neanderthal attitudes are still prevalent, and still have the power to do harm.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
All brilliant, except for one fatal flaw: that makes us no better than him. That's a good reason for not doing a lot of things
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what about people offended by your comments? should they traipse round to gromit mansions and batter you?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
not sure they demonstrate that 'those neanderthal attitudes are still prevalent', tbh.
Like I said earlier, I'd want to hear him trying to explain his comments verbally before I rush to instant judgement. The sample size is not enough for me, although quite a few people have already made up their mind based on his twatter posts. That's their call. As far as I know Bristow hasn't abused anybody like Mr Bennell has, I guess that would be something that I would consider "nasty".
Ok, well if that's where you choose to direct your attention and energy, that's up to you, and perhaps understandable depending on your circumstances and experiences. In my opinion his comments don't appear to be worthy of acknowledgement, but such is the nature of modern day "social media", stupid comments can go viral when they don't really deserve to.
Hmm... "such strenuous effort" is a bit of an over exaggeration, especially compared to the amount of effort and energy put into the angry blasting he seems to be getting from all and sundry. I don't believe I'm trying to mimimise anything, I'm simply not rushing to judgement and angry condemnation based solely on a few twitter posts.
Well I'm not sure that those attitudes really are prevalent tbh. He's a bit of an idiot who said something foolish on twatter, not much more to it than that as far as I'm concerned pending evidence showing him to be a clear and present danger to society. I'm not getting the impression that Bristow is in any way condoning the abuse of boys and in fact, if his twitter "real man" bravado is anything to go by, might be the sort of person that would want to put the likes of Bennell in traction. The kerfuffle over his stupid comments is an unnecessary distraction and diversion from the real issues imo.
Anyway...I think I've already given him far too much attention responding to this thread, so perhaps it's time to do a Debbie Meaden...
EDIT: I've just seen that he's apparently "apologised" for his comments...
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yes, I think he's rather missed the point. Still, I suppose we need to give him some credit for just showing willing...
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Ah, a Murdoch company taking the high ground. Eric shouldn't worry too much about this, should he? After all, Rebecca Brooks got another job from Rupert fairly quickly, despite all the phone hacking.
And what he said was no worse than
Well, tbh, from the responses I've heard from the Crafty Cockney, I don't believe he was trying to be a cunt or to be nasty and was well intentioned but rather clumsy with his use of words. As often happens with these things, they can suddenly spiral out of control and I think the angry responses have been disproportionate to the "crime" committed.
It reminds me of the incident that cost Glenn Hoddle his England manager job back in the day. Similar kind of over reaction.
Hoddle's future in doubt after disabled slur
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but hoddle must have done something bloody awful in his past lives.
I dunno...he seems to have mostly done alright for himself, hasn't he? He's reasonably healthy and I imagine is living fairly comfortably as far as I know.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
being a chelsea manager and playing for spurs? my money's on something absolutely appalling.
Hmmm...as a non partisan, I can think of at least a few thousand things that are worse than managing Chelsea and playing for Tottenham. Funny you mention those teams, cos Chelsea Spurs was the last football match I went to @ Stamford Bridge, friend had two tickets and couldn't attend so I took my son, Chelsea won 4-0 however it was a boring 4-0 and all the goals were in the second half at the other end of the pitch so couldn't see them properly anyway. The crowd was more entertaining than the match especially that song about how Willian "hates Tottenham".
We appear to have digressed.
Orang Utan
They cannot crucify you if your hand is in a fist
There wasn't an over-reaction though. People were rightly disgusted with him and he deserved to lose his job
That's your opinion. I happen to disagree. imo there was definitely a knee-jerk over-reaction and wasn't something that he should have lost his "job" over. I'm sure he'll be alright though and won't be too badly affected once the fallout from the backlash has settled.
Orang Utan
They cannot crucify you if your hand is in a fist
Don't belittle people's genuine feelings by saying they over-reacted. People were genuinely upset by his views.
Not sure how that's belittling peoples feelings at all. It is my opinion. If some people chose to get upset by his choice of words and not spend the time to find out what his intentions/motives were then there's not much I can do about that. Instant outrage appears to be quite fashionable nowadays.
Orang Utan
They cannot crucify you if your hand is in a fist
People don't CHOOSE to get upset FFS.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the problem with bristow saying 'you weren't/aren't man enough to go beat that poof up for what he did' is that it ties into a hideously corrosive view of masculinity- paints victims as somehow at fault for not being the big man. Maybe you liked it eh? etc. It's right that he got the hoof from sky. Also mixing up poof/paedo when drunk and on twitter is a massive freudian slip.
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wobbly
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
Oh, I'm not so sure about that statement.
I respectfully disagree with that also. There is a decision making process involved in how one reacts. If time is taken to get a bit of perspective rather knee jerk then it can change the type of response.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
And I have a few friends who use it as a negative control technique.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I wish this stuff didn't happen and that idiot ex-darts players couldn't get themselves into the news with a bunch of short, drunken idiocies banged away in their bedrooms. But it does, and he did, and his 'job' is only his job because he's in the public eye. He's an utter moron who absolutely has to lose his job after doing this, and how he didn't know that is beyond me. That Sky are also a bunch of hypocritical scumbags also clearly goes without saying. But it is not kneejerk for a broadcaster (which is what his job is) to be sacked for offensive stuff he's been broadcasting (which is what his twitter shite is). His contract will have clauses in it dealing with stuff like this precisely because his job is that of a broadcaster.
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wobbly
there is a decision making process involved in how we respond to our emotions, but not in the generation of those emotions. we don't choose to feel. we either do or don't. and in this case, people feel upset.
you've also got a pretty high level of arrogance there, an assumption that anyone who is upset hasn't thought of anything before responding. thing is, this shit is nothing new. i don't need to take loads of time to think about what it means, i've done that every other time i've come across victim blaming shit. and apologists for victim blamers. i'm not going to accept your bullshit that says i'm reacting irrationally and just need some time to start to agree with you. victim blaming is never going to be ok. making excuses for those who engage in victim blaming is never going to be ok. no amount of justification after the fact and telling lies as excuse is ever going to make it ok. it is never going to be ok to judge victims of abuse and tell them how they should feel and how they should respond.
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