Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[Artaxerxes]

So to sum up pro-bike and anti-car is met with replies of "but what if I want to drive my fridge to the pub once a month while balancing a crate of nuns on my lap"

While pro-car is basically the same but more smugly, also talking about cyclists going through red lights for bonus points.

Would that be about where we are after 270 pages?

 

[edcraw]

Finally, even the right wing nutcases are realising the truth!

 

[platinumsage]

Finally, even the right wing nutcases are realising the truth!

Three of those images are Cambridge, the fourth is Cambridge Street, Harrogate. It seems that Thomas Hedley Fairfax Harwood, who is a GB News journalist, isn't even familiar with where he grew up.

As I live in Cambridge I can tell you the market is a total filthy dive full of piss, kebab grease and stinky bins. There's also a massive multi story car park 100 yards away.

 

[edcraw]

Well obviously not all the right-wing nutcases. platinumsage still needs a bit of time to catch up…

 

[T & P]

.

 

[T & P]

Finally, even the right wing nutcases are realising the truth!

Oh, so all this time you had actually only asked for ‘the very centre’ of cities to be car free?

Oh, but you should have said! Count me in.

 

[T & P]

I fucking love this thread

 

[platinumsage]

I'm struggling to think of any cities in the UK that don't have car-free streets in their centres.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Oh, so all this time you had actually only asked for ‘the very centre’ of cities to be car free?

Oh, but you should have said! Count me in.

No, want most of a city to be car free.

 

[edcraw]

I'm struggling to think of any cities in the UK that don't have car-free streets in their centres.

London

 

[edcraw]

So

Oh, so all this time you had actually only asked for ‘the very centre’ of cities to be car free?

Oh, but you should have said! Count me in.

So why do you lose your shit over LTNs?

 

[platinumsage]

London

Same people moaned about closing north side of Trafalgar Sq & The Strand as Aldwych - both v successful.

 

[edcraw]

Hahaha - that’s about 200m in total.

 

[platinumsage]

Hahaha - that’s about 200m in total.

I'm sure you can think of some more.

 

[edcraw]

I'm sure you can think of some more.

Kingly Street - that’s about it tbh. You’re right, most city centres have been pedestrianised but London falls far behind manly because of Tory run Westminster. Hopefully with Labour now in charge things will change.

 

[platinumsage]

Kingly Street - that’s about it tbh. You’re right, most city centres have been pedestrianised but London falls far behind manly because of Tory run Westminster. Hopefully with Labour now in charge things will change.

Leicester Square, Cranbourn Street, Gerrard Street, the list goes on.

Anyway I thought London was some sort of exemplar of public transport provision that the nether regions were supposed to replicate, despite their much lower population densities. However if it can't even support enough car-free street for you to remember any of them, perhaps it's got too much public transport for its own good. More walking in the capital would improve things it seems.

 

[edcraw]

Leicester Square, Cranbourn Street, Gerrard Street, the list goes on.

Anyway I thought London was some sort of exemplar of public transport provision that the nether regions were supposed to replicate, despite their much lower population densities. However if it can't even support enough car-free street for you to remember any of them, perhaps it's got too much public transport for its own good. More walking in the capital would improve things it seems.

What are you on about?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

What are you on about?

He’s doing that thing where he thinks he’s making an oh so clever point.

 

[A380]

I'm struggling to think of any cities in the UK that don't have car-free streets in their centres.

St Davids. I think that's probably it.

 

[T & P]

No, want most of a city to be car free.

You do, and I completely respect that even if I might disagree with it. You are one of the only two ‘anti car’ posters who have maintained a consistent viewpoint. Everyone else, including the poster I was quoting above, have been moving the goalposts about what they actually want throughout the lifetime of this thread.

 

[edcraw]

You do, and I completely respect that even if I might disagree with it. You are one of the only two ‘anti car’ posters who have maintained a consistent viewpoint. Everyone else, including the poster I was quoting above, have been moving the goalposts about what they actually want throughout the lifetime of this thread.

I really haven’t. But glad you agree central London should be car free. Where should the boundary be?

 

[T & P]

So why do you lose your shit over LTNs?

Apart from the fact that you have moved the goalposts yet again by trying to switch the discussion to LTNs, which is irrelevant to this particular conversation, I have never objected to all LTNs, just those that imo are blatantly not fit for purpose and unnecessary.

Bottom line is that you and some of the others ITT voicing opposition to cars continue to fail to make your mind up about what you actually want to happen, all while accusing anyone who might express even the most minor of concerns about a given proposal as a Tory motorhead. I myself would be perfectly happy for parts of the very centre of London to be car free. At the same time I don’t believe some LTNs are beneficial on the whole, or that entire city-wide car bans are a good idea. If you actually think anyone who might consider a reasonable compromise allowing some car use in sone circumstances might be preferable to blanket city-wide bans is a right wing Clarksonite by default, then I’d urge you to have a word with yourself.

 

[edcraw]

Apart from the fact that you have moved the goalposts yet again by trying to switch the discussion to LTNs, which is irrelevant to this particular conversation, I have never objected to all LTNs, just those that imo are blatantly not fit for purpose and unnecessary.

Bottom line is that you and some of the others ITT voicing opposition to cars continue to fail to make your mind up about what you actually want to happen, all while accusing anyone who might express even the most minor of concerns about a given proposal as a Tory motorhead. I myself would be perfectly happy for parts of the very centre of London to be car free. At the same time I don’t believe some LTNs are beneficial on the whole, or that entire city-wide car bans are a good idea. If you actually think anyone who might consider a reasonable compromise allowing some car use in sone circumstances might be preferable to blanket city-wide bans is a right wing Clarksonite by default, then I’d urge you to have a word with yourself.

So the congestion charge zone? That would a good step.

LTNs are a very good compromise between banning cars - you should support our local one.

It’s very good that everyone’s in agreement that cars have huge downsides - which after all is the whole point of the thread.

 

[teuchter]

Apart from the fact that you have moved the goalposts yet again by trying to switch the discussion to LTNs, which is irrelevant to this particular conversation, I have never objected to all LTNs, just those that imo are blatantly not fit for purpose and unnecessary.

Bottom line is that you and some of the others ITT voicing opposition to cars continue to fail to make your mind up about what you actually want to happen, all while accusing anyone who might express even the most minor of concerns about a given proposal as a Tory motorhead. I myself would be perfectly happy for parts of the very centre of London to be car free. At the same time I don’t believe some LTNs are beneficial on the whole, or that entire city-wide car bans are a good idea. If you actually think anyone who might consider a reasonable compromise allowing some car use in sone circumstances might be preferable to blanket city-wide bans is a right wing Clarksonite by default, then I’d urge you to have a word with yourself.

"Reasonable compromise"

 

[platinumsage]

"Reasonable compromise"

You know, like how people generate noise when doing their day-to-day activities, and how some people are disturbed by noise, so we have a reasonable compromise where limits are placed on noise above which it might be declared a statutory nuisance and enforcement measures used.

Or how people want to modify their home, and how some people might be adversely affected by such modifications, so we have a reasonable compromise in planning law which where limits are placed on development.

With these sorts of things people can disagree about the limits of reasonableness, but the general principal is one of balancing competing interests.

Maybe the same sort of thing applies to transportation and car use. Maybe some sort of reasonable compromise is the only reasonable thing that can be done, and just as we wouldn't ban all noise or outlaw all building, we won't ban all car use, except in the fevered minds of sandal-weaving LibDem Kim Jong-un aping fantasists.

 

[edcraw]

You know, like how people generate noise when doing their day-to-day activities, and how some people are disturbed by noise, so we have a reasonable compromise where limits are placed on noise above which it might be declared a statutory nuisance and enforcement measures used.

Or how people want to modify their home, and how some people might be adversely affected by such modifications, so we have a reasonable compromise in planning law which where limits are placed on development.

With these sorts of things people can disagree about the limits of reasonableness, but the general principal is one of balancing competing interests.

Maybe the same sort of thing applies to transportation and car use. Maybe some sort of reasonable compromise is the only reasonable thing that can be done, and just as we wouldn't ban all noise or outlaw all building, we won't ban all car use, except in the fevered minds of sandal-weaving LibDem Kim Jong-un aping fantasists.

This is why starting with an extreme position like ‘ban cars’ works. When the Tory/UKIP Clarkson wannabe Daily Mail reading scum finally realise you’ve got a point they’ll offer to compromise and think that banning cars from city centres, road pricing, LTNs etc are reasonable.

Then we ban cars obv!

 

[platinumsage]

It seems to me broadly that the current status quo of such things generally aligns with what the majority of the population consider reasonable. If you want to change the status quo you need to go about convincing people that the current situation is actually intolerably unreasonable.

Not sure that any car-abolitionists are doing a very good job with that so far, despite the existence of this extensive thread.

 

[edcraw]

If you want to change the status quo you need to go about convincing people that the current situation is actually intolerably unreasonable.

Not in North Korea.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I really haven’t. But glad you agree central London should be car free. Where should the boundary be?

The M25. All cars banned within and streets pedestrianised.

 

[maomao]

The M25. All cars banned within and streets pedestrianised.

Liberal. I'm going for the exosphere.