How much do you believe car travel costs you per mile?

[teuchter]

Perhaps people who are fortunate enough to be able to afford to live in cities should be taxed a a little more to cover the cost of public transport for rural areas.

Wealthy people should be taxed and some of that tax should be used to improve public transport in rural areas, yes. Glad we agree.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Same. I don't think I've ever contemplated the cost per mile of driving.

I drive for convenience and pleasure, neither of which are cost considerations. I'd still do both if public transport was considerably cheaper.

I'd say very few people even consider it, which is how the government gets away with taxing fuel so highly.
I wonder what'll replace fuel duties when all vehicles are electric. That's around £25 Billion a year in the UK on fuel duty alone, not including the VAT.

 

[lazythursday]

I'd say very few people even consider it, which is how the government gets away with taxing fuel so highly.
I wonder what'll replace fuel duties when all vehicles are electric. That's around £25 Billion a year in the UK on fuel duty alone, not including the VAT.

There will be an interminable process probably involving an independent commission or something because politicians will be terrified to make a decision but I think we will end up with some form of road pricing where rural areas are cheaper and congested roads more expensive.

 

[moochedit]

I'd say very few people even consider it, which is how the government gets away with taxing fuel so highly.
I wonder what'll replace fuel duties when all vehicles are electric. That's around £25 Billion a year in the UK on fuel duty alone, not including the VAT.

Some kind of pay per mile system i guess. I think i remember reading about someone suggesting the idea for all new cars after the election and getting fired.

Edit - think this might be the person i'm talking about although maybe they weren't fired but deleted their tweets.

Labour urged to consider ‘pay-per-mile road tax’ to cover fiscal shortfall

A senior civil servant suggests Labour consider a "pay-per-mile" road tax to prevent a £25bn fiscal shortfall from lost fuel duty as electric car numbers rise. This controversial measure aims to ensure electric motorists pay their share.

evpowered.co.uk

 

[Spymaster]

Perhaps people who are fortunate enough to be able to afford to live in cities should be taxed a a little more to cover the cost of public transport for rural areas.

Why not just make country people give their houses to city folk with cars?

 

[teuchter]

Why not just make country people give their houses to city folk with cars?

I actually already worked out a better version of this:

Welsh govt introduces measures to curb second homes and short-term holiday accommodation

Fuck them all, the cunts. 😘

www.urban75.net

 

[Chz]

Some kind of pay per mile system i guess. I think i remember reading about someone suggesting the idea for all new cars after the election and getting fired.

Edit - think this might be the person i'm talking about although maybe they weren't fired but deleted their tweets.

Labour urged to consider ‘pay-per-mile road tax’ to cover fiscal shortfall

A senior civil servant suggests Labour consider a "pay-per-mile" road tax to prevent a £25bn fiscal shortfall from lost fuel duty as electric car numbers rise. This controversial measure aims to ensure electric motorists pay their share.

evpowered.co.uk

It rubs a lot of people the wrong way, so they don't want to push it publicly. But really it's the only thing that makes sense. If we're going to push everyone into heat pumps, they can't just recover it through higher electricity taxes. Some sort of pay per mile thing is inevitable.

 

[lazythursday]

People just need to get their heads round the fact that petrol is already effectively pay per mile.

 

[Elpenor]

People just need to get their heads round the fact that petrol is already effectively pay per mile.

Electric cars are not affordable for ordinary people and they are given tons of subsidy. They shouldn’t be available via salary sacrifice IMO as this is govt subsidising private motorists. Instead I would make bus passes / season tickets tax deductible

 

[Chz]

Electric cars are not affordable for ordinary people and they are given tons of subsidy. They shouldn’t be available via salary sacrifice IMO as this is govt subsidising private motorists. Instead I would make bus passes / season tickets tax deductible

The subsidy problem is of the government's own making, in that they want to end fossil fueled cars sooner rather than later. The all-powerful market has already said this isn't going to happen on its own by 2030 or whatever, so if the government wants to meet its own targets it will either have to adjust the target or subsidise EVs. And they've made the choice that it will only apply to new cars, so tripling petrol duty isn't the answer either.

 

[teuchter]

People just need to get their heads round the fact that petrol is already effectively pay per mile.

And proper pay-per-mile could actually address some of the more legitimate objections to taxing people on the amount they drive, because it can be tuned to place much higher tax on journeys where there are genuine public transport alternatives, and take into account that in more rural areas higher mileages are necessary to access various essential services.

 

[Elpenor]

The subsidy problem is of the government's own making, in that they want to end fossil fueled cars sooner rather than later. The all-powerful market has already said this isn't going to happen on its own by 2030 or whatever, so if the government wants to meet its own targets it will either have to adjust the target or subsidise EVs.

There’ll be people driving old petrol cars who can’t afford to replace and will be stung for road pricing. Paying double basically. That car will have been made once 20 or more years ago

Meanwhile electric cars have had years of free tax, discounted charging etc and their wealthy owners will be replacing them every few years while thinking they’re saving the world

Which one is more or less better for the environment ?

 

[lazythursday]

There’ll be people driving old petrol cars who can’t afford to replace and will be stung for road pricing. Paying double basically. That car will have been made once 20 or more years ago

Meanwhile electric cars have had years of free tax, discounted charging etc and their wealthy owners will be replacing them every few years while thinking they’re saving the world

Which one is more or less better for the environment ?

Why will people pay double? They might well pay less.

The subsidy problem is of the government's own making, in that they want to end fossil fueled cars sooner rather than later. The all-powerful market has already said this isn't going to happen on its own by 2030 or whatever, so if the government wants to meet its own targets it will either have to adjust the target or subsidise EVs. And they've made the choice that it will only apply to new cars, so tripling petrol duty isn't the answer either.

It's not really 'the government's own making'. It's physics and pure numbers. You can't set a target of net zero by 2050, and make international commitments about emissions cuts, and ignore transport. It's like a third of our emissions.

 

[Elpenor]

Why will people pay double? They might well pay less.

Surely if they pay for petrol and are subject to road pricing they’d be paying double?

 

[Chz]

Why will people pay double? They might well pay less.


It's not really 'the government's own making'. It's physics and pure numbers. You can't set a target of net zero by 2050, and make international commitments about emissions cuts, and ignore transport. It's like a third of our emissions.

Sure it is. It's their target. They can define it however they want. It's not like India is even pretending to be carbon neutral by 2050. (2070 is their target, last I looked)

And road pricing would be extraordinarily difficult (though not impossible, granted) to retrofit to older cars. It would have to be some sort of mandated tech that applies to all cars built after 20-whatever. Like the speed limiters. I imagine like the speed limiters the EU will demand it first and it will apply here by default.

 

[lazythursday]

Sure it is. It's their target. They can define it however they want. It's not like India is even pretending to be carbon neutral by 2050. (2070 is their target, last I looked)

And road pricing would be extraordinarily difficult (though not impossible, granted) to retrofit to older cars. It would have to be some sort of mandated tech that applies to all cars built after 20-whatever. Like the speed limiters. I imagine like the speed limiters the EU will demand it first and it will apply here by default.

India has a long way to go before its per person emissions catch up with ours. There's a justice element to this, yeah? We started the fucking thing we have a lot more moral responsibility than many nations. Regardless of what the target is we have to rapidly reduce, globally. That means taking some difficult decisions. We have to reduce emissions from transport. We haven't managed that at all, so even a slow pace is clearly going to be challenging.

 

[sleaterkinney]

India has a long way to go before its per person emissions catch up with ours. There's a justice element to this, yeah? We started the fucking thing we have a lot more moral responsibility than many nations. Regardless of what the target is we have to rapidly reduce, globally. That means taking some difficult decisions. We have to reduce emissions from transport. We haven't managed that at all, so even a slow pace is clearly going to be challenging.

A difficult decision like not fucking the planet up?

 

[Saul Goodman]

The subsidy problem is of the government's own making, in that they want to end fossil fueled cars sooner rather than later. The all-powerful market has already said this isn't going to happen on its own by 2030 or whatever, so if the government wants to meet its own targets it will either have to adjust the target or subsidise EVs. And they've made the choice that it will only apply to new cars, so tripling petrol duty isn't the answer either.

Another case of the government only helping those who least need the help.

 

[Chz]

Another case of the government only helping those who least need the help.

The people it helps most are probably the 80% of drivers who buy a used car - EVs are more reliable, and quite economical if you have a place to charge, at a higher price. If the new car price comes down, there'll be more EVs in the used market and they'll be cheaper to own which is an enhancement because they're cheaper to run. Because 4/5 cars sold are used, this is a much more important market in terms of whether the subsidy makes anything cheaper. The new car buyers aren't being helped - they can afford a new car. They're being convinced to make said purchase an EV instead of a hybrid or petrol car.

 

[hash tag]

Perhaps people who are fortunate enough to be able to afford to live in cities should be taxed a a little more to cover the cost of public transport for rural areas.

You mean like congestion charging and ULEZ?
I believe it is not just London in the UK thats introduced this but other UK city's also.
Despite this and it being very unpleasant driving in London, people still do, far to many people in fact.
As for pay per mile, Mr Khan has already said he has no plans to introduce it.
Is there not a case for putting restrictions on car ownership in major city's?
Restrict the size of car you car and stick to a one car per household policy or perhaps one car per parking space or some such?

 

[moochedit]

You mean like congestion charging and ULEZ?
I believe it is not just London in the UK thats introduced this but other UK city's also.
Despite this and it being very unpleasant driving in London, people still do, far to many people in fact.
As for pay per mile, Mr Khan has already said he has no plans to introduce it.
Is there not a case for putting restrictions on car ownership in major city's?
Restrict the size of car you car and stick to a one car per household policy or perhaps one car per parking space or some such?

I think only london has congestion charge but there are some cities with "clean air" charges simalar to london's ulez.

There is a checker here for a few cities. My yaris is no charge (except london obviously).

Drive in a clean air zone

Find out if you need to pay to drive in a clean air zone and check your vehicle meets emission standards.

www.gov.uk

 

[Saul Goodman]

You mean like congestion charging and ULEZ?
I believe it is not just London in the UK thats introduced this but other UK city's also.
Despite this and it being very unpleasant driving in London, people still do, far to many people in fact.
As for pay per mile, Mr Khan has already said he has no plans to introduce it.
Is there not a case for putting restrictions on car ownership in major city's?
Restrict the size of car you car and stick to a one car per household policy or perhaps one car per parking space or some such?

I'm not sure what the answer is, but out of fairness it should probably involve rewarding/compensating people who live in rural areas, as they spend more on travel than city dwellers.

 

[marty21]

Get the car serviced about once a year , £150 , insurance was around £750 , MOT £40 , tax was £180 . AA £180. Parking permit £180) Tyres are around £60 a pop , have replaced 3 in the past 12 months.Drive maybe 3000 a year , so maybe £500 on petrol. Main driving is to Bath maybe 3 times a year (about 250miles round trip) 3 holidays a year when we rent a cottage in the UK . Just had an unexpected cost when the car didn't start when I was about to drive back from Walberswick in Suffolk, this morning. The AA replaced the battery (£164) . Can't be arsed working it out per mile tbf.

 

[teuchter]

Saul Goodman is putting a lot of effort into trying to get a reaction on this thread.

 

[weltweit]

The more miles you drive, the lower your cost per mile. This is because most of the costs of driving like insurance, MOT, breakdown cover, repairs etc are one-off payments once a year with only fuel and tyres coming per mile driven.

 

[hash tag]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but out of fairness it should probably involve rewarding/compensating people who live in rural areas, as they spend more on travel than city dwellers.

I don't know about compensation but I hear a lot about how poor public transport is outside of London.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Saul Goodman is putting a lot of effort into trying to get a reaction on this thread.

This is, without doubt, the least self-aware post of the year

 

[teuchter]

The more miles you drive, the lower your cost per mile. This is because most of the costs of driving like insurance, MOT, breakdown cover, repairs etc are one-off payments once a year with only fuel and tyres coming per mile driven.

The more thread you read, the fewer unnecessary posts you need to write.

 

[Chz]

The more thread you read, the fewer unnecessary posts you need to write.

The more you fart, the better you feel!

 

[hash tag]

The more thread you read, the fewer unnecessary posts you need to write.

Thats very short sighted and subjective