How much do you believe car travel costs you per mile?

[teuchter]

I don't really understand your motivation for getting at the marginal cost rather than full cost.

I think it's useful to have some sort of figure in mind for both. Which one is more relevant obviously depends what you are looking at.

This thread is partly to help me judge whether the broad figures I have in mind are out of date.

But it's also interesting/useful to know how others might think it through and what numbers they might use (if any).

 

[A380]

I think it's useful to have some sort of figure in mind for both. Which one is more relevant obviously depends what you are looking at.

This thread is partly to help me judge whether the broad figures I have in mind are out of date.

But it's also interesting/useful to know how others might think it through and what numbers they might use (if any).

You should do a table from the responses you have got. Then calculate the averages. Using the mean average will probably be fairly accurate -the “guess how many beans in a jar” theory.

 

[Looby]

It's really boring how often threads about driving turn into people defensively arguing that some journeys aren't practical to do by public transport and are better driven. Um, we know.

It's like talking to my mum (who lives in North Norfolk) about LTNs in Brixton.

WELL IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL TO CLOSE OFF THE ROUTE TO LITTLE SNORING THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WITHOUT A CAR

Yes Mum, I know, that's why no one's suggesting that

Guilty! But I did it because it always comes up. Use public transport, car share, get a more local job etc

It works for some but not every job. Even if I lived in London I would likely still need a car for most of the jobs I’ve done.

 

[existentialist]

Many years ago, I did the sums, counting fuel, tyre replacement, clutch replacement, servicing, etc.

I came out with a number around twice what the fuel cost was, which, at that time, was about 20p/mile.

I'd guess, in a vague hand-waving kind of way, that it's probably around 60p/mile minimum now, what with the increases in fuel costs, and pretty swingeing increases in parts and labour prices particularly over the last couple of years.

 

[lazythursday]

Guilty! But I did it because it always comes up. Use public transport, car share, get a more local job etc

It works for some but not every job. Even if I lived in London I would likely still need a car for most of the jobs I’ve done.

But if we have policies that mean that more people who can change do so, you benefit as well from less congestion.

And I suppose the other response is - if for some reason you could no longer drive (medical reason, banned, whatever) you'd find a way to adapt.

it's such a tiny amount of human history that we have had this form of transportation yet people cannot imagine a different way of life.

 

[teuchter]

Many years ago, I did the sums, counting fuel, tyre replacement, clutch replacement, servicing, etc.

I came out with a number around twice what the fuel cost was, which, at that time, was about 20p/mile.

I'd guess, in a vague hand-waving kind of way, that it's probably around 60p/mile minimum now, what with the increases in fuel costs, and pretty swingeing increases in parts and labour prices particularly over the last couple of years.

That's your estimate for "total over year" or "marginal per additional journey" cost?

 

[Red Cat]

I got the train today from Birmingham to Coventry as my car is in the garage after some entitled twat drove into my car door as I was standing there and then lied to the insurance company that I opened the door on him.

I love driving fast and listening to music but I also love the train and if it wasn't for the fact that they are always delayed (both trains to Cov were delayed) I'd use them more often. I liked being in the city centre train station, the reading on the train, the quick stop off for an espresso at the Italian cafe on the way to the clinic. I'm going to do the same next week*. I don't know how much it costs in the car, it's 30 miles each way, some on the motorway. It cost £12 return on the train at peak times.

* I only work there once a week, I wouldn't do this every day.

 

[Orang Utan]

Just read the average monthly running costs of owning a car in the UK is £280!
presumably that’s before you even put petrol in it!

 

[jontz01]

I charge my vehicle out at 1.2nzd/per km so around just shy of a pound a mile. It costs a little less than that to run, I'm making around 20% on that.

 

[kebabking]

Just read the average monthly running costs of owning a car in the UK is £280!
presumably that’s before you even put petrol in it!

No idea what that's based on.

Interestingly, it's pretty much the exact cost of 2 adults and 2 children doing a day trip to Oxford, and then two weeks later doing a day trip to Cardiff.

But not including the 40 mile round trip to get to the train stations.

Or 20 days of commuting, school runs, shopping, taking the kids to swimming, or climbing, or scouts...

 

[Looby]

But if we have policies that mean that more people who can change do so, you benefit as well from less congestion.

And I suppose the other response is - if for some reason you could no longer drive (medical reason, banned, whatever) you'd find a way to adapt.

it's such a tiny amount of human history that we have had this form of transportation yet people cannot imagine a different way of life.

Yeah of course, I was just explaining why I said it.

If I couldn’t drive then I’d have to change the job I do and what I’ve paid a huge amount of money to train/qualify for. There are few roles I could do in my current career that didn’t require use of a car so it would be a significant change for me. But yes of course I’d have to adapt.

 

[Orang Utan]

No idea what that's based on.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-cost-run-car-uk#:~:text=For%20a%20typical%20car%20owner,costs%20to%20own%20a%20car.

 

[Orang Utan]

Lucky enough to live in a city and still fit enough to ride a bike, so have never needed to learn to drive, so it’s academic, but even if I had the wherewithal to run a car, I’d be too tight to spend all that money!

 

[Leafster]

But if we have policies that mean that more people who can change do so, you benefit as well from less congestion.

And I suppose the other response is - if for some reason you could no longer drive (medical reason, banned, whatever) you'd find a way to adapt.

it's such a tiny amount of human history that we have had this form of transportation yet people cannot imagine a different way of life.

I also posted an example where using the train for a particularly journey was impractical. But I also posted that I walk, cycle or use public transport where it's most appropriate or convenient for me.

I'm not sure it's actually that useful to focus on the comparative cost per mile of the alternatives if we're looking to discourage driving and encourage active travel or increased use of public transport. We do need to tackle the default position that a lot of car drivers have where their first thought when undertaking any journey (however short!) is 'where are the car keys'.

I don't think the comparative cost is a driver in the decision-making for many car users so the narrative should be about showing the other benefits of active travel or public transport.

 

[lazythursday]

No idea what that's based on.

Interestingly, it's pretty much the exact cost of 2 adults and 2 children doing a day trip to Oxford, and then two weeks later doing a day trip to Cardiff.

But not including the 40 mile round trip to get to the train stations.

Or 20 days of commuting, school runs, shopping, taking the kids to swimming, or climbing, or scouts...

hmmm - you posted a cost of train travel (I think Kidderminster to Oxford) on another thread that was wildly inaccurate when I checked...

But clearly you can't just switch a set of journeys you've created for yourself while you have car ownership to exactly the same set by public transport.

 

[lazythursday]

I also posted an example where using the train for a particularly journey was impractical. But I also posted that I walk, cycle or use public transport where it's most appropriate or convenient for me.

I'm not sure it's actually that useful to focus on the comparative cost per mile of the alternatives if we're looking to discourage driving and encourage active travel or increased use of public transport. We do need to tackle the default position that a lot of car drivers have where their first thought when undertaking any journey (however short!) is 'where are the car keys'.

I don't think the comparative cost is a driver in the decision-making for many car users so the narrative should be about showing the other benefits of active travel or public transport.

There's quite a lot of evidence about this now from studies around the globe. It doesn't much matter what narrative you create, just explaining benefits doesn't make a significant difference to behaviour. Nor does, interestingly, making public transport cheap or free (by itself) - it tends to create lots of extra journeys and also encourage people who would walk or cycle to switch to bus. You only really get people to switch through measures that combine improvements to public transport with restrictions to car use with pricing, road closures and parking restrictions.

 

[existentialist]

That's your estimate for "total over year" or "marginal per additional journey" cost?

Marginal per average journey. My tyres, clutch and brakes wear out in proportion to the miles I travel, insurance, depreciation, and servicing less so.

 

[A380]

That's your estimate for "total over year" or "marginal per additional journey" cost?

Where’s you table and averages of responses teuchter? You’ve had more than enough time. Show some commitment to your own thread…

 

[kebabking]

hmmm - you posted a cost of train travel (I think Kidderminster to Oxford) on another thread that was wildly inaccurate when I checked...

But clearly you can't just switch a set of journeys you've created for yourself while you have car ownership to exactly the same set by public transport.

I can only apologise for the website telling me the wrong price?



Cardiff was about £80 for the four of us, with a F&F Railcard, but we had to drive to Ludlow to catch the train - 20 miles each way, and parking on top of that.

No buses, obviously....

Rather struggling to see why you think the TOC's websites being all over the shop is my problem....

 

[lazythursday]

I can only apologise for the website telling me the wrong price?

View attachment 459492

Cardiff was about £80 for the four of us, with a F&F Railcard, but we had to drive to Ludlow to catch the train - 20 miles each way, and parking on top of that.

No buses, obviously....

Rather struggling to see why you think the TOC's websites being all over the shop is my problem....

I didn't say it was your fault, just that I couldn't replicate it. With the same Railcard I found that journey as cheap as £50.

 

[rubbershoes]

That's your estimate for "total over year" or "marginal per additional journey" cost?

I've put up the RAC figures for marginal cost earlier in the thread. Read them or don't. It's up to you

 

[teuchter]

I've put up the RAC figures for marginal cost earlier in the thread. Read them or don't. It's up to you

I did.
They put it at between about 12p and 27p per mile depending on engine size. And it seemed to be roughly the petrol cost plus 30%.
This disagrees quite a lot with what existentialist came up with (if his estimate is marginal cost) hence why I'm interested to clarify what his number is for.

 

[PTK]

Motoring is a bit like an addictive drug.
Our society has been shaped by the car. If mass car ownership had not come to be, there would not only be more public transport, there would also be fewer people living in places that are hard to reach by public transport. Motors cars have led to people becoming more isolated geographically and socially.

 

[Chz]

Marginal per average journey. My tyres, clutch and brakes wear out in proportion to the miles I travel, insurance, depreciation, and servicing less so.

I've honestly owned a car for 13 years and never had to service the brakes or clutch. I'm sure it adds something to the marginal cost, but it can't be significant. Tyres I reckoned average about 1.5p/mi and are probably the most significant mileage related cost after fuel and parking. Brake pads are, for most cars, cheaper than tyres and last twice as long. I've no idea what a clutch runs, I've never changed one in my life!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

my last but one car, i had from about 36,000 miles to somewhere around 200,000 miles (it didn't quite say that on the speedo, but the speedo cable went twang one time and it was a month or two before i got it fixed) and i never needed to change the clutch. the synchromesh was unpredictable but that's not the same thing.

partly driving style, also avoiding travelling in peak hours as much as possible. i could do the changing gear without using the clutch thing, but only if i didn't think about it too much.

last car got to 99,000 ish miles and i never needed to change clutch, it was just everything else that was knackered

never given much thought to brake pads / discs, they need replacing eventually but that can be time as much as mileage, likewise tyres get old with time. i'm a fairly low mileage driver (consistently under 5,000 a year and probably closer to 3,000 most years now)

current job needs me to have a car one or two days a month.

when the 200,000 miles car got nicked and written off, i did give serious thought to whether to replace it at all (job then didn't need me to have a car) - deciding factor was ageing mum-tat and what would happen if there's some sort of emergency either a weekend the trains aren't running here, or just after the last train had gone of a night...

 

[teuchter]

I've honestly owned a car for 13 years and never had to service the brakes or clutch. I'm sure it adds something to the marginal cost, but it can't be significant. Tyres I reckoned average about 1.5p/mi and are probably the most significant mileage related cost after fuel and parking. Brake pads are, for most cars, cheaper than tyres and last twice as long. I've no idea what a clutch runs, I've never changed one in my life!

Most people I know that own a car, there seem to be things that fail unpredictably and need replacing, perhaps not that frequently but often at quite significant cost ... these things need to be factored in somehow too surely - it's not just the things that predictably need replacing every X miles.

 

[Chz]

Most people I know that own a car, there seem to be things that fail unpredictably and need replacing, perhaps not that frequently but often at quite significant cost ... these things need to be factored in somehow too surely - it's not just the things that predictably need replacing every X miles.

Unpredictability is the key word though. The last unscheduled bit of maintenance I had to do was when the battery died after 11 years. Cost me £80. Before that, ignoring items like bulbs, it was 2001 and that's why I don't buy BMWs any more.

Aside: This is part of why I swear up and down that yes it's worth it to pay more for the Japanese car.

 

[Orang Utan]

Most people I know that own a car, there seem to be things that fail unpredictably and need replacing, perhaps not that frequently but often at quite significant cost ... these things need to be factored in somehow too surely - it's not just the things that predictably need replacing every X miles.

Aye, it sounds like you’d always need to have money in the bank just in case. Like owning a house.

 

[teuchter]

Unpredictability is the key word though. The last unscheduled bit of maintenance I had to do was when the battery died after 11 years. Cost me £80. Before that, ignoring items like bulbs, it was 2001 and that's why I don't buy BMWs any more.

Aside: This is part of why I swear up and down that yes it's worth it to pay more for the Japanese car.

I wonder how much of this depends on how old the car is. Is it the case that the older the car, the higher the marginal cost per journey is?
The RAC figures posted earlier assumed a car owned for 3 years from new. But how representative is that of most people's situation?
A lot of people buy secondhand (or opt to keep an older car going rather than replacing) and this obviously is a good way of avoiding the upfront purchase costs. But are they effectively trading that off against what is in reality a higher marginal cost, because driving 100 miles in an older car is more likely to cause something to break than driving the same distance in a new car?

 

[Chz]

Everything breaks eventually, but the average age of a car these days is >10 years* and reliability keeps going up on average. Yes, shit's going to go wrong, but it goes wrong an awful lot less than it used to. If you normalise to take the absolute stinkers out (because sometimes Bad Cars just happen, even to Toyota) there's a healthy percentage of people that will never see a major repair bill.

*I think it's more like 10 dead on in the UK because we have funny buying habits, but factor in the EU and the US and it's more like 12 to 13.