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Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

To return to a world where a small to medium sized town can support bustling shopping streets packed full of all the shops the residents will ever need isn't possible. For a start, there's home delivery of both groceries and Amazon tat, so even if you close all the out-of-town shopping centres and confiscate all the town's resident's cars, such a shopping paradise won't be viable unless you also encourage non-residents to travel into the town to do their shopping. The appetite for such out-of-towners to do all their non-village shopping by bussing into a town is likely to be tiny.
 
platinumsage said:
To return to a world where a small to medium sized town can support bustling shopping streets packed full of all the shops the residents will ever need isn't possible. For a start, there's home delivery of both groceries and Amazon tat, so even if you close all the out-of-town shopping centres and confiscate all the town's resident's cars, such a shopping paradise won't be viable unless you also encourage non-residents to travel into the town to do their shopping. The appetite for such out-of-towners to do all their non-village shopping by bussing into a town is likely to be tiny.
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Who knows what point is supposed to be being made here.
 
maomao said:
More 'drivers are thick selfish twats' news:

road.cc

Parked cars block cycle lane – while their owners ride static bikes in park

Local resident says issue highlights lack of safe cycling provision in Edinburgh
road.cc road.cc
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No, I agree with the complainers as they're complaining that the council have created cycle lanes in which it's legal to park. It's an advisory cycle lane with a single yellow line, whereas the council could have created a mandatory lane and/or used double yellow parking/loading restrictions. No doubt we can blame the SNP, the LibDems, Labour, the Tories and the Green Party.
 
The trouble with the change in pedestrian priority is that pedestrians don’t know about it. Several times I’ve stopped to give way at junctions and the peds have just stood at the kerb looking gormless whilst the traffic has stacked up behind me, and on busy streets in London you’ll sit there all fucking day if the peds don’t give way. I reckon this bit of silliness will get changed back eventually.
 
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Spymaster said:
The trouble with the change in pedestrian priority is that pedestrians don’t know about it. Several times I’ve stopped to give way at junctions and the peds have just stood at the kerb looking gormless whilst the traffic has stacked up behind me and on busy streets in London you’ll sit there all fucking day if the peds don’t give way. I reckon this bit of silliness will get changed back eventually.
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It's a real problem a motorbike. Stopping in the main carriageway when you want to turn left because there's some pedestrian standing there is just inviting a rear-ending. Or someone suddenly deciding to cross because they have right of way after you've committed to the turn.
 
Athos said:
It's a real problem a motorbike. Stopping in the main carriageway when you want to turn left because there's some pedestrian standing there is just inviting a rear-ending. Or someone suddenly deciding to cross because they have right of way after you've committed to the turn.
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And bear in mind, cyclists have to do this too (although they won't) so you'd have a cyclist stopped on a fast moving road giving way to pedestrians stopped at the kerb, with everyone giving each other wtf looks. It's stupid and badly thought out.
 
According to the HC only pedestrians “waiting to cross" have priority, not “pedestrians waiting”.

It’s shit because this change in the HC isn’t reflected in any legislation.
 
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Spymaster said:
And bear in mind, cyclists have to do this too (although they won't) so you'd have a cyclist stopped on a fast moving road giving way to pedestrians stopped at the kerb, with everyone giving each other wtf looks. It's stupid and badly thought out.
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If they've got any sense, they'll ignore that rule. They'll have to get used to thinking of them as red lights. ;)
 
Athos said:
It's a real problem a motorbike. Stopping in the main carriageway when you want to turn left because there's some pedestrian standing there is just inviting a rear-ending. Or someone suddenly deciding to cross because they have right of way after you've committed to the turn.
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Stopping in the main carriageway when wanting to turn right, and having to wait for a break in cars coming the other way is the same. All roads should be made one-way to solve this.

The last thing we should do is try and make it out like the basic problem is inattentive drivers and a system of rules arranged around their convenience.
 
teuchter said:
Stopping in the main carriageway when wanting to turn right, and having to wait for a break in cars coming the other way is the same. All roads should be made one-way to solve this.

The last thing we should do is try and make it out like the basic problem is inattentive drivers and a system of rules arranged around their convenience.
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The penalty for rear-ending (and other dangerous driving faults) should be much greater.
 
Athos said:
It's a real problem a motorbike. Stopping in the main carriageway when you want to turn left because there's some pedestrian standing there is just inviting a rear-ending. Or someone suddenly deciding to cross because they have right of way after you've committed to the turn.
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Why would you get rear ended? Would have to be a very shit driver behind to do that. If you’re travelling at a reasonable speed when slowing down, indicating and taken the lane should be fine.
 
edcraw said:
Why would you get rear ended? Would have to be a very shit driver behind to do that. If you’re travelling at a reasonable speed when slowing down, indicating and taken the lane should be fine.
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The thing I find most terrifying on a bike (not motorbike but I imagine it's similar) is making a right hand turn off a fast and busy A road (usually outside of urban areas). To sit stationary effectively in the middle of the road with absolutely no protection, with cars passing at speed in both directions, without being concerned, would require an unreasonable amount of trust in drivers paying attention.

When planning bike routes I'll try and avoid having to do this, and often prefer simply to pull off to the left, and then walk the bike across as if a pedestrian.

That doesn't work on the many A roads in the UK that are narrow with hedges and barely any verge. Then, you might choose to carry on past the junction until there's somewhere you can stop.

Have also had drivers ignore a right hand signal, who then are trying to overtake at the moment you want to turn right. Even getting yourself into the right hand side of the lane, in advance of the jucntion, can feel too dangerous to attempt at times.
 
teuchter said:
The thing I find most terrifying on a bike (not motorbike but I imagine it's similar) is making a right hand turn off a fast and busy A road (usually outside of urban areas). To sit stationary effectively in the middle of the road with absolutely no protection, with cars passing at speed in both directions, without being concerned, would require an unreasonable amount of trust in drivers paying attention.

When planning bike routes I'll try and avoid having to do this, and often prefer simply to pull off to the left, and then walk the bike across as if a pedestrian.

That doesn't work on the many A roads in the UK that are narrow with hedges and barely any verge. Then, you might choose to carry on past the junction until there's somewhere you can stop.

Have also had drivers ignore a right hand signal, who then are trying to overtake at the moment you want to turn right. Even getting yourself into the right hand side of the lane, in advance of the jucntion, can feel too dangerous to attempt at times.
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Yep - it’s shit. Hence taking the lane & quite funny how pissed off some drivers get.

We shouldn’t be making the Highway Code in response to shit drivers though.
 
edcraw said:
Why would you get rear ended? Would have to be a very shit driver behind to do that.
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Because there's lots of very shit drivers! Something should be done about that, but, in the meantime, knowing that's the case, they should do away with this rule.
 
Athos said:
Because there's lots of very shit drivers! Something should be done about that, but, in the meantime, knowing that's the case, they should do away with this rule.
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We had decades of pandering to shit drivers (pedestrian guard rails, gyratories etc) and it doesn’t work.

Nothing is being done about shit drivers though eg. regular testing, lifetime bans. So we need to do other measures. 20mph limit in all urban areas would help a lot with this sort of thing - it means traffic moves much more calmly and safely.
 
edcraw said:
Yep but we shouldn’t water the rules down just cos some aren’t going to pay attention to them.
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The Highway Code "rules" aren't enforceable, so should really only reflect a sort of consensus that is already in place. That's why the pedestrians at side road change has caused confusion - it's a drastic change from the status quo and therefore something that should have been implemented by actual legislation.
 
edcraw said:
20mph limit in all urban areas would help a lot with this sort of thing - it means traffic moves much more calmly and safely.
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If anyone bothers to enforce it. As per my post just now in the brixton thread -

www.urban75.net

Speeding and general dangerous driving in and around Brixton

it's actually the third time in 4 years, 1st was New Years Eve, drunk driver lost control not much damage done. 2nd was 2 years ago, driver claimed he swerved to miss a dog at 2.30 in the morning, narrowly missed 4 pedestrians as it hit the wall, no insurance. 3rd was 2 weeks ago, driver hit 2...
www.urban75.net www.urban75.net

Not unusual at all for me to go out to the shops and see something like that within 5 mins of my front door.

(I'm not arguing against 20mph zones - just saying they need to be enforced)
 
edcraw said:
We had decades of pandering to shit drivers (pedestrian guard rails, gyratories etc) and it doesn’t work.

Nothing is being done about shit drivers though eg. regular testing, lifetime bans. So we need to do other measures. 20mph limit in all urban areas would help a lot with this sort of thing - it means traffic moves much more calmly and safely.
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Recognising that there are shit drivers isn't pandering; it's damage limitation. This change to the HC is creating more risk. But, yes, there should be regular testing, stiffer penalties, and a lower limit in many more urban areas.
 
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