Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[platinumsage]

It's all kicking off with the anti-working-class trial LTNs in Oxford, which most residents opposed:

Labour city councillor Linda Smith described the trials as 'rushed', saying: "Cowley Road is gridlocked and bus journeys home from town for residents in Lye Valley are delayed by an hour. Did anyone reasonably expect any other result from the rushed LTN experiments?"
Labour city Shaista Aziz said: "Terrible and totally avoidable. LTN’s have become divisive issue, pitting people and communities against each other along class and economic lines. Transport and environment policy needs to focus on tackling inequalities and bringing people together. A better strategy is needed."

Traffic chaos and vandalism as even pro-LTN individuals share trial doubts

Even some people who are pro-traffic reducing measures have doubts about the East Oxford LTN trial.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Controversial LTN bollards smashed down AGAIN

MORE roadblocks that were set up as part of a new low traffic neighbourhood (LTN) scheme in East Oxford have been smashed down as fury against the…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It's all kicking off with the anti-working-class trial LTNs in Oxford, which most residents opposed:

Labour city councillor Linda Smith described the trials as 'rushed', saying: "Cowley Road is gridlocked and bus journeys home from town for residents in Lye Valley are delayed by an hour. Did anyone reasonably expect any other result from the rushed LTN experiments?"
Labour city Shaista Aziz said: "Terrible and totally avoidable. LTN’s have become divisive issue, pitting people and communities against each other along class and economic lines. Transport and environment policy needs to focus on tackling inequalities and bringing people together. A better strategy is needed."

Traffic chaos and vandalism as even pro-LTN individuals share trial doubts

Even some people who are pro-traffic reducing measures have doubts about the East Oxford LTN trial.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Controversial LTN bollards smashed down AGAIN

MORE roadblocks that were set up as part of a new low traffic neighbourhood (LTN) scheme in East Oxford have been smashed down as fury against the…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Behavioural change doesn’t work overnight shock.

These people are pricks, and can be ignored

 

[teuchter]

Very much illustrative of the problems we have got ourselves into by building car-orientated infrastructure for several decades, and therefore appropriate for the thread.

 

[platinumsage]

Behavioural change doesn’t work overnight shock.

These people are pricks, and can be ignored

Who? The working class? Good to know where you stand, no doubt you vote LibDem, might even be a party member.

 

[platinumsage]

Very much illustrative of the problems we have got ourselves into by building car-orientated infrastructure for several decades, and therefore appropriate for the thread.

The relevant infrastructure of paved roads in these neighborhoods was all in place before the motor vehicle. Perhaps you think with the advent of the car they should have quickly ploughed all the roads to mud lest anyone start using them for something other than a horse.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Who? The working class? Good to know where you stand, no doubt you vote LibDem, might even be a party member.

No, imagination free car drivers.

Yes, there will be congestion at first. You don’t change behaviour overnight. Let the twats moan, they’re irrelevant.

 

[edcraw]

Who? The working class? Good to know where you stand, no doubt you vote LibDem, might even be a party member.

The working class

Love how the Tory voting middle classes in their SUVs always want to pretend they’re only against LTNs on social equality grounds.

LTNs work & are overwhelming popular don’t be fooled by a few people having tantrums cos they’re slightly inconvenienced.

 

[teuchter]

But there were paved roads in the 1880s therefore we mustn't change anything now because of obvious logic.

 

[sim667]

Different people having different opinions isn't 'moving goalposts'.

When you’re trying to convince other people they shouldn’t need to use cars, then yes it is

 

[platinumsage]

Worst propaganda ever:

 

[maomao]

Worst propaganda ever:

And yet even in the last bastion of entitled lazy car wankers 64% of people have a favourable attitude towards bikes.

 

[T & P]

Worst propaganda ever:

I wonder why...

 

[alex_]

I wonder why...

I blame cyclists

 

[T & P]

And yet even in the last bastion of entitled lazy car wankers 64% of people have a favourable attitude towards bikes.

Funny how virtually every single other country on that list has as many if not more cars and 'entitled lazy car wankers' circulating daily through their towns and cities, and yet cyclists there are much more appreciated than those here...

 

[platinumsage]

Funny how virtually every single other country on that least has as many if not more cars and 'entitled lazy car wankers' circulating daily through their towns and cities, and yet cyclists there are much more appreciated than those here...

...and a higher traffic-related death rate than the UK.

 

[maomao]

...and a higher traffic-related death rate than the UK.

Would surely be a reason for liking bicycles. Anyway, this isn't the pro-cycling propaganda thread, it's the anti-car propaganda thread. I'm on the walking part of my commute right now and grateful for it.

 

[teuchter]

. Anyway, this isn't the pro-cycling propaganda thread, it's the anti-car propaganda thread.

Well said. There's a reason for the attempts to divert it.

 

[T & P]

Well said. There's a reason for the attempts to divert it.

 

[Athos]

I'm genuinely surprised to see from that survey that the biggest bike fans are wealthy managerial types. If have thought they'd be more likely to drive the ones in the Audis.

 

[platinumsage]

Another example of an anti-car policy backfiring.

• Increase town-centre parking charges to reduce car use
• Fewer people shop in town
• Shops move out-of-town
• People need to drive to go shopping

 

[kabbes]

I wish it wasn’t true but it is true. If I were a shopkeeper, I’d be very angry with the council for charging me hefty rates and then not fulfilling their implied contract of creating the environment for my commercial success. It feels underhand.

 

[Athos]

The stick won't work without the carrot. It'd be OK pricing cars out the town centre if public transport was sufficiently cheap, reliable, comfortable, and convenient. But, until then, people will just take their cars somewhere else.

 

[platinumsage]

The stick won't work without the carrot. It'd be OK pricing cars out the town centre if public transport was sufficiently cheap, reliable, comfortable, and convenient. But, until then, people will just take their cars somewhere else.

The carrot obviously needs to be in place before the stick. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for council and anti-car lobbyists to grasp.

 

[edcraw]

This is just pointing out that we're overly reliant on cars so we're overly reliant on cars - it's a circular argument.

No amount of cheap public transport will compete with cars if we keep builidng shitty housing developments that are relient on cars. It's the shitty suburban lifestyle that most of this country aspire to that's the issue.

 

[kabbes]

I think the point is that you can’t escape the circle by interfering at just one point. If you don’t have control of the entire system, the solution people find to your interference might be contrary to your aims

 

[alex_]

Another example of an anti-car policy backfiring.

• Increase town-centre parking charges to reduce car use
• Fewer people shop in town
• Shops move out-of-town
• People need to drive to go shopping

Is this actually an anti car policy or is it a councils have no money policy ?

Btw this and public transport cuts feel more like coalition cuts than any failed strategy.

 

[teuchter]

Definitely the way to deal with everyone being attracted to out-of-town shopping centres with massive car parks, is to turn town centres into massive car parks too.

 

[platinumsage]

Definitely the way to deal with everyone being attracted to out-of-town shopping centres with massive car parks, is to turn town centres into massive car parks too.

That’s the reverse of what is happening. Out-of town shops are being newly created as a consequence of car parks in town centres being closed or too highly priced.

Sustainable in-town shops serving both out-of-town car users and in-town walkers/cyclers are being made unviable by the pricing out of one of the two groups of customers that supported them.

 

[Athos]

That’s the reverse of what is happening. Out-of town shops are being newly created as a consequence of car parks in town centres being closed or too highly priced.

Sustainable in-town shops serving both out-of-town car users and in-town walkers/cyclers are being made unviable by the pricing out of one of the two groups of customers that supported them.

Which has the perverse effect of making cars more of a necessity (to get to the out-of-town sites). It's an unintended consequence of tinkering with one part of a complex system. We need more investment in public transport before there's any real chance of persuading people to give up their cars. And if you stop them using their cars in one area, they'll just use them elsewhere. Of course, that displacement might have some value - cleaner air in towns, for example - but a better solution would be for people to choose to give up cars altogether.

 

[teuchter]

Out of town, car-optimised shopping developments are being created as a consequence of rubbish planning policy.

It's not just a simplistic choice between car-served out of town shops, and car-served town centre shops.

Why do people do bulk shopping, by car, at giant supermarkets? Is it simply because parking is difficult at town centre locations?

No, it's the result of a whole load of things and a much bigger picture, including many people not having any shops at all within easy walking distance of their homes, despite living in essentially urban areas. Why don't they? Because car dependence has been allowed to develop and persist.

Furthermore we now have some new options that are increasingly available, such as home delivery of groceries and other heavy items.

It's very narrow thinking to simply ask what's the best location for car-served large scale supermarkets. The question should be, do we need to live in a world where such things are necessary at all, or at least, whether they need to be a regular part of a very large number of people's mode of living.