EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[STFC]

I'm still not convinced that "nationalism-lite" is useful or is anti-establishment, it is more a lobby for more nationalism, more state intervention. Thats not to say we should shout "Nazi" at anyone wearing an england shirt.

Although you'd like to, eh?

 

[Raw SslaC]

Although you'd like to, eh?

No, such a thing is idiotic.

 

[STFC]

Fair play. I thought it was a tactical thing.

 

[STFC]

http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2009/08/08/police-arrest-31-during-protest-clashes-66331-24352519/

1:12 - "What's happened now, is a number of racist nazis..."

Oh dear.

 

[smokedout]

The edl prats are not the point here. them getting chased around brum centre is not the point either - the bigger picture is what this does for the BNP, and as far i can tell this is brilliantt for them.

perhaps it is, but this doesnt look like a standard UAF banner waving sesh, but more like working class kids, of all races, organising together to fight the fash off the streets

given that by and large it was asian guys who were going to be targeted by the edl, then im loathe to condemn how they chose to resist it

 

[butchersapron]

perhaps it is, but this doesnt look like a standard UAF banner waving sesh, but more like working class kids, of all races, organising together to fight the fash off the streets

given that by and large it was asian guys who were going to be targeted by the edl, then im loathe to condemn how they chose to resist it

Absolutely no sense of political responsibility from the UAF - they knew damn well if they called a counter-demo they could sit back let the local asian lads do the job of getting all militant, thereby allowing the UAF to chunnel the students into their organisation on the basis of it was them looking all militant (note how the usual UAF broad front bollocks was replaced with clear SWP slogans on many placards for this one). Result for both the UAF and the BNP. Bad for the rest of us.

 

[butchersapron]

given that by and large it was asian guys who were going to be targeted by the edl, then im loathe to condemn how they chose to resist it

Asain lads aren't immune from stepping into traps and playing the role of useful idiots (for both sides).

 

[treelover]

While it may have made tactical sense on the day to maximise numbers, (though overall the whole thing sounds like apathy won the day) in the long term for UAF/SWP to brand all critics of islamic fundamentalism as BNP, etc will only alienate people and may push some of the young uns towards the fash.

 

[Spion]

Haha, look at Butchers all pissy cos the world gets on with it without him. *grin*

Some racists wanted to make their presence felt on the streets of Brum, they even tried to physically attack the anti protesters and got a kicking for their trouble. Good.

 

[smokedout]

fair enough, and im not defending UAF, but i suspect even without their involvement this kind of resistance would have mobilised anyway, it did in bradford and oldham, just strictly along racial lines, this looks a lot more like different races united (difficult so say without being there - but from the reports on here anyways) in resistance and there is some comfort to be taken in that, especially given one of the edl's agendas seems to have been to stir up tension between the black and asian communities

in short i agree about the uaf, and it was a propaganda victory for the bnp, but beneath the surface, its perhaps not all bad

 

[treelover]

How old are you Spion? sad Trot fuck...

 

[butchersapron]

Haha, look at Butchers all pissy cos the world gets on with it without him. *grin*

Some racists wanted to make their presence felt on the streets of Brum, they even tried to physically attack the anti protesters and got a kicking for their trouble. Good.

Yep, exactly as i predicted - a stunning victory, let's do more of this! Total lack of political responsbility, sold down the river for a little bit of excitment, some goold old lefty posing and a whole lot of shit further on down the road. Paint this as cable stret mark 2 all you like, simplify it down to the sort of limited picture painted above that a 17 year old junior trot would come out with if you like, cheer on the useful idiots if you like - doesn't change the lijkely outcomes of this - doesn't evebn begin to recognise them even. Dudley, Sandwell, stoke BNP rubbing their hands.

 

[treelover]

Dudley, Sandwell, stoke BNP rubbing their hands.

a number of BNP blogs, fellow travellers, etc are indeed celebrating this 'defeat' today

 

[Spion]

How old are you Spion? sad Trot fuck...

Yeah, well we all know which demo you'd have been part of, mental boy

 

[Spion]

a number of BNP blogs, fellow travellers, etc are indeed celebrating this 'defeat' today

Oh shit, the patriot blogosphere has spoken. Run for the hills.

Twat

 

[treelover]

they knew damn well if they called a counter-demo they could sit back let the local asian lads do the job of getting all militant, thereby allowing the UAF to chunnel the students into their organisation on the basis of it was them looking all militant

What do you expect, the asian lads were just Chris Harman's 'footsoldiers'(TM)

 

[Spion]

Yep, exactly as i predicted - a stunning victory, let's do more of this! Total lack of political responsbility, sold down the river for a little bit of excitment, some goold old lefty posing and a whole lot of shit further on down the road. Paint this as cable stret mark 2 all you like, simplify it down to the sort of limited picture painted above that a 17 year old junior trot would come out with if you like, cheer on the useful idiots if you like - doesn't change the lijkely outcomes of this - doesn't evebn begin to recognise them even. Dudley, Sandwell, stoke BNP rubbing their hands.

And you've got fuck all to contribute. No way to take it forward. Can't even acknowledge that making a bunch of racists run away is a good thing. You're one limp dick, pal

 

[butchersapron]

And you've got fuck all to contribute. No way to take it forward. Can't even acknowledge that making a bunch of racists run away is a good thing. You're one limp dick, pal

Wow, thanks for the politics. I've said that the edl are not the point, there's a bigger picture that will now be changed for the worse by your stunning victory. if all you can say is 'but we made them run away' if all you've got is cheering (from the sidelines) people actively playing into the hands of the BNP, then i'm not sure you've very much to contribute yourself. In fact, your contribution is worse than zero, it's counter-productive. But at least you can strike the pose eh? That's what it's all about.

 

[discokermit]

perhaps it is, but this doesnt look like a standard UAF banner waving sesh, but more like working class kids, of all races, organising together to fight the fash off the streets

given that by and large it was asian guys who were going to be targeted by the edl, then im loathe to condemn how they chose to resist it

i applaud them.

how would anybody feel if they were young, asian, working class and living in brum, seeing those cunts marching about. and knowing that if you just ignore it, next week there will be more of them, making more noise and making your life more unbearable.

 

[durruti02]

i realise you can't tell but that all looked very well behaved and docile tbh,

yes the crew at the town hall were 'well behaved' and had all the right banners 'we hate the nazis as much as we hate muslim extremists' 'we are not the bnp and we are not racist' 'black and white unite' and ones attacking anti gay attitudes and female mutilation in islam, defending israel (so not anti jewish blah blah) etc

.. the question we can not answer as yet is what is the relationship between that lot and the crews looking for a row with the muslim kids .. is the whole thing a con? or is this a split?

http://www.lionheartuk.blogspot.com/

lionhearts latest blog doesn't really clarify matters at all!

 

[lostexpectation]

but the causual and the edl are racist bigots....


muslim bombers off our streets, what muslim bombers in particular are they talking about?

 

[durruti02]

okay just got back from brum. I'm sure durutti02 will have a lot to say about what went on but here's my twopennethworth.

We arrived 5.30 down at the bullring, the corner of New street and High street. The uaf counter demo was in full flow, there was a loose cordon of police with 100 or so inside, many more outside. Almost all asian, black faces, very few white/lefty types at all. No swp paper sellers, although lots of uaf placards. Milling about outside few casual looking types (ie white football hoolie types/edl types) small clusters of black lads and lots of asians plus shoppers and curious on lookers. Bit of an atmopshere but no tension.

We walked up New street pedestrian way to the Council House (informed by a copper that's where the edl were meeting up) hung around the fountain and watched casual looking types, white hoolie types, begin to arrive in small groups by the main building. Police were in a very loose cordon around the plaza. Saw a couple of edl people bring all the placards and banners and watch the demo form up. Extremely strange banners that seem to tick all the pc boxes all with the edl logo. Someone had a big union jack an england flag (don't know if they brought them themselves) plus an israeli flag was draped on the fencing behind them. Started singing national anthem, chanting muslim bombers off our streets, around 60-70 in the loose police cordon, all white with 20-30 or so milling outside. Families and kids playing around the fountain, black lads on bikes looked on, as did 4 boneheads who obviously made a point of not joining the demo.

Suddenly a load of police left the edl cordon charged down to the top end of New street where it seemed a load of asian lads were making their way up. Police blocked the route and pushed them back down New Street and formed lines across the street. Riot police and police dogs were brought out. There was also a mobile metal fence erected as a kind of barrier. Edl were free to move (ie not penned in by police) but remained static against the Council House building.

We made our way around the side streets (being mistaken on the way for the bnp (!) by a group of drunks standing outside a bar) down to where the police had blocked the asian lads coming up New Street. Made our way back to the corner of New street/High street and the uaf demo where it looked like the police had cordoned everyone in.

Tensions were rising, volatile if unconfrontational atmosphere at that point. Suddenly a group of around 30 edl/football hoolies lads charged down from round High street towards the demo. Stopped half way and beckoned everyone to have a go. The asian lads just swarmed en masse towards them where the edl/football hoolies did a u-turn and ran like fuck, chased by hundreds of young asian lads. One or two of the younger more inexperienced hoolies got caught, fell and took a battering.

Hoolies tried to re-group at the bottom end of New street by M&S where there was another onslaught by the asian lads. Police were pretty slow of the mark.

After that it all got a bit surreal. We saw edl/football hoolies being chased all over the shop, riot police running in formation trying to keep up, groups of asian, black lads basically looking for "the bnp". Weird little things: a group of about 25 (white, asian, black, mixed race) looking like a proper youth firm after the edl mob, Edl/hoolie types wandering about untouched and unconfronted (it felt like gangs of lads were after gangs of lads rather than taking out individual white/edl/hoolie types), a load of young goth/emo kids in the park getting into it.

We tried to keep up with things ducking round side streets avoiding police lines, didn't feel threatened or intimidated despite being the only few white faces amongst a sea of asian/black faces. Didn't seem either that the asian lads were reinforcing their muslim identity.

Of course we weren't everywhere and we may have missed things but the bbc report (especially the eye witness account by gary nichols) is way off the mark.

this ^^

 

[durruti02]

Fantastic, pictures today in the papers of young whites lads on their own being beaten by a large mob of Asians/Muslims.
I am sure the BNP are delighted with that image.

Seen a report on the BBC where a moron from the UAF kept talking about the protesters being BNP, which is bollocks.
They had signs saying we are not the BNP, and anti BNP placards(much the same as the UAF's) and black and white unite!

Clearly not hard core football lads, just a bunch of young kids with something against Islam.
Reports of when the trouble started, of black and Asians lads attacking anyone white. Now that may be partially true, or not true at all, but it does not matter, that is the story which will gain credence.

A terrible photo of a mob of Asian youths dragging a union jack flag of an elderly man, more propaganda for the BNP.

Not long after the 2001 riots, the BNP got it's first council seat.
Pictures of single white males being beaten by Asians is a massive boost for the BNP, and they were not even there.

The event gave the image, true or false, of a very small number of white lads sticking up for ''ingerland'', and getting the crap beaten out of them by British hating Asians. That is the image which will be seen across Britain, even if false.

The UAF are the biggest bunch of fuckwits ever. They have in a single day made race relations even worse in the UK.
I fear next time some real football lads might turn up, and we will see some terrible race riots.
A few hundred more thousand votes for the BNP in the bag, well done the UAF.

and this ^^ and again this is the question .. was the whole thing a set up? are EDL state assets or dupes?? or a BNP front?? or just a bunch of football boys with army connection??

.. in my mind the jury is still out

 

[durruti02]

The edl prats are not the point here. them getting chased around brum centre is not the point either - the bigger picture is what this does for the BNP, and as far i can tell this is brilliantt for them. Racialises stuff in brum where they've been strugglig to get a hold, ratchets the ternsion up - will give them a boost in Dudlely, Sandwell etc How much propoganda about 'pakis' taking over etc can they get out of this to sell to those without the full picture of what happened and why, they'd be utterly incompetent not to get bucket loads. And every other BNP branch nationally with a slightly up for it membership will now be seeking to follow their lead. Total fucking shambles that is going to be paraded as a victory for anti-fascism (more specfically for the UAF) for the next few years, locking anti-fascism into the exact same stuff that's helped lead us to the terrible postion that we're now in - despite this not being likely to touch the BNP in any negative way at all.

yes .. though tbh i am not sure UAF could ahve stopped the asian kids wanting a row ( boys will be boys is what it felt like tbh) .. though the constant wind up that EDL were BNP was clearly inflammatory

 

[durruti02]

Yep, exactly as i predicted - a stunning victory, let's do more of this! Total lack of political responsbility, sold down the river for a little bit of excitment, some goold old lefty posing and a whole lot of shit further on down the road. Paint this as cable stret mark 2 all you like, simplify it down to the sort of limited picture painted above that a 17 year old junior trot would come out with if you like, cheer on the useful idiots if you like - doesn't change the lijkely outcomes of this - doesn't evebn begin to recognise them even. Dudley, Sandwell, stoke BNP rubbing their hands.

yup

 

[audiotech]

According to a police spokesperson on Talksport they didn't ban this event because it's important to 'allow democratic protest'!

He also never mentioned the EWDL, but said that "Casuals United" were the organisors of the "protests". It was also made clear that this group had never been in contact with the police to discuss their intentions?

The police must have realised that these "casuals" were there for a ruck with Asian lads and as expected were the first to start trouble by charging UAF protestors. These casuals then bottled it and ran when they met with a group of mainly Asian and black youth, who rightly defended themselves.

It seems odd then that the police allowed this to go ahead?

 

[asbestos]

EDL are the BNP's sacrificial lambs. (obviously).

 

[Spion]

But at least you can strike the pose eh? That's what it's all about.

No. You're projecting your own motivations onto others here.

What it's all about is not allowing a bunch of racists to whip up support unopposed on the streets of Brum. And that's what happened.

Like a strike over pay or jobs that wins its aims, it's not socialism, it's not workers councils, it's a very limited aim that was achieved.

 

[durruti02]

i applaud them.

how would anybody feel if they were young, asian, working class and living in brum, seeing those cunts marching about. and knowing that if you just ignore it, next week there will be more of them, making more noise and making your life more unbearable.

well yes .. but some times i is better to maybe ignore idiots .. like with drunks. do you always give a lecture on moral values and termperance to the 6ft monster standing in the middle of the pavement and a bottle in his hand? no

EDL may well be a provocation .. in which case ignore them .. or they are just a few obsesses ex squaddies and mates .. in which case they are going no where .. and they have a point, that 21st century britain does not want to become a medievalist theocracy which ( however unlikely regardless that thousends of muslims wish for it) the vast majority agree with

these are really really dangerous times and if we do not play our cards right we will end up with race war and fundamental division

people like spion appear to have no foresight whatsoever and appear utterly reactive ... we need to be a fuck site more canny

 

[butchersapron]

No. You're projecting your own motivations onto others here.

What it's all about is not allowing a bunch of racists to whip up support unopposed on the streets of Brum. And that's what happened.

Like a strike over pay or jobs that wins its aims, it's not socialism, it's not workers councils, it's a very limited aim that was achieved.

Wow, simplified down even further - you should be a general or something - and with as a side order attempt to say that those who disagree with your counter-productive side-line cheering are scabs, or the equivalent. Every strike takes account of tactics, analyses what the likely results are of taking certain actions at certain times are. They don't just grunt urgh -get 'em.