EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I am still a bit puzzled as to why counter-demos to this particular gang of bigots are seen as being counter-productive, when - I assume here, correct me if I'm wrong - counter-demos to BNP marches aren't. Is it because they say they're not racists?
Spion
I hear ya
I expect you'll be joining them, uncritically. And then on Urban you'd be spunking everywhere about how it's 'the new face of the working class movement'.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Ok I will ask the question.you dismiss the idea of a counter demo
you defend this group as not being racist, though they clearly are anti muslim racists.
You attack those that wish to organise opposition
So what do you propose except ignore them, pander to them and appease them?
They should be driven off the streets on the 8th. Alliances need to be built with Birmingham asian community. And these racists fucks need to be shown that Birmingham won't tolerate this racist shit in our city.
What won't work is the pathetic apologising that you continually make for these racists. They are not "concerned with extremism" they are anti muslim racists.
I like to echo Durutti's concerns about what is happening. What we are seeing here is a section of the class that is being mobilised on nationalism becuase of a percieved threat - jihadists and more widely Islam in the UK. This is potentially a premature fascist movement as it has all the ingredients. It will either develop politically or fizzle out. Already the language and tone of what is being said is hardening.
Casuals United was formed by Jeff Marsh ex-hooli from Barry Town SoulCrew, Wales. You can read about his exploits (inc. stabbing a couple of Man U fans) in his recent book . English and Welsh Defence League was set-up to accomodate "non-casuals".
Initally the FB group had within its description "No Nazi's, No BNP, No NF, No Racists..." two weeks ago the "No BNP" part was taken out. In Luton during the March for England (which has nothing to do with CU or EDF) there was one placard saying "NF go to Hell" -- it could be sectarianism, though I think generally people (even racists) don't like to be associated with any neo-fascist party, mainly I think because they don't have the politics to defend their association.
I'm not sure whats going to happen on August 8th. Its after the Villa vs Fiorentina friendly, and the demo is in the late evening 6pm - 9pm. Means alot of people would have been drinking all day (even the young "muslims"). It is more than likely going to kick off - loads of cops, groups of young asian lads, penned in UAF/ANL/SWP, groups of casuals having a go sporadically at any non-white people. Basically a complete nightmare. That is one scenario. Alternatively, only 100 or so turn up, get chanted down, everyone gets demoralised and all the organisers in Casuals United either stand for election for English First Party or BNP in next years election.
Anyhow, got a plate of fishfingers waiting for me.
Casuals United was formed by Jeff Marsh ex-hooli from Barry Town SoulCrew, Wales. You can read about his exploits (inc. stabbing a couple of Man U fans) in his recent book . English and Welsh Defence League was set-up to accomodate "non-casuals".
Initally the FB group had within its description "No Nazi's, No BNP, No NF, No Racists..." two weeks ago the "No BNP" part was taken out. In Luton during the March for England (which has nothing to do with CU or EDF) there was one placard saying "NF go to Hell" -- it could be sectarianism, though I think generally people (even racists) don't like to be associated with any neo-fascist party, mainly I think because they don't have the politics to defend their association.
I'm not sure whats going to happen on August 8th. Its after the Villa vs Fiorentina friendly, and the demo is in the late evening 6pm - 9pm. Means alot of people would have been drinking all day (even the young "muslims"). It is more than likely going to kick off - loads of cops, groups of young asian lads, penned in UAF/ANL/SWP, groups of casuals having a go sporadically at any non-white people. Basically a complete nightmare. That is one scenario. Alternatively, only 100 or so turn up, get chanted down, everyone gets demoralised and all the organisers in Casuals United either stand for election for English First Party or BNP in next years election.
Anyhow, got a plate of fishfingers waiting for me.
Spion
I hear ya
A Brummie? That used to live in Cambodia? Can't be many of them about
Do I know you?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
does it? there is no real way of knowing whether these groups have a couple of members of several hundred (the member 'count' on the pages being all but meaningless) so you cant tell if it is an insight into a 'sub group', or a couple of mates, or a couple of nutters.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
They can't possibly be racististist. They actually say they aren't so they can't be.
Glad to clarify for you.
I agree. Chris Renton - BNP Organiser in Weston-super-mare setup the english defence league website. Also there was a history with FYC (Fine Young Casuals) in Oldham who were involved in the race riots back in 2001. There also has been many times when football firms have told BNP/NF/C18 to fuck off.
ok to start with have you been following all the chat in these sites? cos if you have not you don't know what you are commenting on so my reply to you would be meaningless .. go and check it all out then come back to me
and this is surely the crux of the matter .. do we give up on all these people? because they are clearly BNP manipulaters in the background most of the punters will be ordinary w/c people ..
i'm not sure it is as yet, no doubt there are fash attempting to pull the strings, but the majority of those involved seem be closer to extreme conservatives with a little bit of racism thrown in
it may develop in a more radical direction, but i do think the continued denouncement of racism, fascism etc are probably genuine amongst most of them, even if there might be an element of im not rascist but ...
Spion
I hear ya
and the NF remnants
Though D, fascism has also had "ordinary w/c people" involved - sometimes in their millions. I don't think it is solely BNP manipulators, theres is a conscious decision out of all the turmoil in the economy they pick a muslims as their target???! I think we can get bogged down in understanding their "position" and forget that they have a choice to make - either they continue creating counter-productive, reactinary marches or get involved in targetting the real root problem - capitalism.
Simplistic I know.
Indeed, Man United for example, but plenty of firms have been infiltrated by the right-wing in the past. The right have often used the angst in these lads and the organization of the firms to their own ends.
Though D, fascism has also had "ordinary w/c people" involved - sometimes in their millions. I don't think it is solely BNP manipulators, theres is a conscious decision out of all the turmoil in the economy they pick a muslims as their target???! I think we can get bogged down in understanding their "position" and forget that they have a choice to make - either they continue creating counter-productive, reactinary marches or get involved in targetting the real root problem - capitalism.
Simplistic I know.
yep don't disagree .. it's how we do it!
From what I know of football firms and the people who make them up, they tend to fall into the Tory working class category.
I am sure there are some ''fascists'' there.
The problem for those on here who want to physically confront them, are that they will be veterans of many street battles. They fight because they like it, not for any political motives.
And when it comes to street fighting they are not stupid. They will look to pick of the opposition before and after the main event, where there are less police around.
It really depends on how hard core football thugs they are, who will turn up on the day.
If it is serious members of some football firms planning to turn up, then the UAF or antifa will be no match for them.
What could turn the tables on them, are if young Muslims turn up to fight them. But this is what they what, from what I can see.
Maybe it will turn out to be a non event anyway.
I am sure there are some ''fascists'' there.
The problem for those on here who want to physically confront them, are that they will be veterans of many street battles. They fight because they like it, not for any political motives.
And when it comes to street fighting they are not stupid. They will look to pick of the opposition before and after the main event, where there are less police around.
It really depends on how hard core football thugs they are, who will turn up on the day.
If it is serious members of some football firms planning to turn up, then the UAF or antifa will be no match for them.
What could turn the tables on them, are if young Muslims turn up to fight them. But this is what they what, from what I can see.
Maybe it will turn out to be a non event anyway.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
that sounds..wrohless. Smaller than the demo its opposing? Quieter? Sio that no llne nitces it? What would be the point? Simply shouting 'nazi's out' wouldnt be much cop, I'd rather taking the piss with some more footballs style chants, but thats not tha main issue really. A demo like this, from which racist violence would almost definitely follow, should be opposed. There should be as many people as necessary to do that (without making this, probably, pisspoor little stunt seem bigger than it will be). It should be as noisy as it needs to be to drown the wankers out, and to let others know hat the majority oppose their bullshit. Anything less would be a pathetic cop out.
so, what do you suggest?
I suppose for the left its a case of dammed if you do, dammed if you dont.
Many white working class people percieve the left to have abandoned them for all sorts of reasons. And any sort of organised left wing opposition to this sort of march which would, I imagine, be the sort of thing that a lot of people would agree with the general sentiments off, even if they are a bit daft, merely reinforce that.
The problem is dealing with the reasons why they feel abandoned in the first place. And to be honest you aint got a clue what to do about that.
The Tories just pick up the support of the white working classes who have managed to do 'ok' for themselves. They are percieved as a party of aspiration. But for those left behind, well there are very few real choices.
Many white working class people percieve the left to have abandoned them for all sorts of reasons. And any sort of organised left wing opposition to this sort of march which would, I imagine, be the sort of thing that a lot of people would agree with the general sentiments off, even if they are a bit daft, merely reinforce that.
The problem is dealing with the reasons why they feel abandoned in the first place. And to be honest you aint got a clue what to do about that.
The Tories just pick up the support of the white working classes who have managed to do 'ok' for themselves. They are percieved as a party of aspiration. But for those left behind, well there are very few real choices.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
What is this bullshit, as if Welsh people call themselves 'Taffies' anymore. Sounds like a bunch of coked up morons. The irony being that Wales is about 98% white people anyway, and outside of South Wales is about 99.5% white.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
These people are extremely separate from the 'millions of increasingly angry and frustrated whites', they are organised around football firms hence Casuals United, people who are up for violence and far-right politics regardless of whether there's a recession or whatever. They are a minority of morons.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
That'll be the link from Jeff Marsh the Cardiff City Soul Crew author (originally from Barry). Didn't realise he had these kind of leanings though.
To be honest I'm sick of people making excuses for these morons, alleging that unless folks take note of these concerns 'decent' people will be driven to the BNP.
These people are fucking racist idiots and BNP liabilities in the first place. No more understanding is needed, nor any excuses made for these twats.
These people are fucking racist idiots and BNP liabilities in the first place. No more understanding is needed, nor any excuses made for these twats.
i do wonder how these 'campaigners' will be able to stop-
1) kiddy fiddlers
2) terrorists.
Like, a terrorist is not gonna see some News Of The World fanatics marching through the streets and say "right, i'm giving up bombing, public opinion must be against me!" , or a paedo is not gonna say "oh what i'm doing is wrong, i had better stop!"
1) kiddy fiddlers
2) terrorists.
Like, a terrorist is not gonna see some News Of The World fanatics marching through the streets and say "right, i'm giving up bombing, public opinion must be against me!" , or a paedo is not gonna say "oh what i'm doing is wrong, i had better stop!"
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