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EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

and you know seem to know nothing about working class history .. people RIGHTLY see this as THEIR country. Unlike the middle class the w/c actually DID build this country, the roads, the cars, the houses etc etc And they again in their millions fought and died again for what they see as THEIR country. Until the left understand this 'nationalism lite', they will NEVER be able to relate to w/c people.

And also the w/c DID have power in this country. Through the Trade Unions and the Labour Party w/c people had significant power in this country of a kind which forced previous Tory govts to act in a way that is afr to the left of the current New Labour Party and forced capital to an all out assult in the early 1980s

I think this is perhaps what we may think of a certain generation - say 50-60 year olds. But it doesn't apply to most people. I think alot of w/c people saw the unions as divisive and pretty much the enemy in most instances, the same goes for political parties like Labour (new and old).

English nationalism has always been reactionary and xenophobic, tied closely with support for an imperialist state, British Army and royalist. You just have to look at the character and tone of any flag waving w/c person - there is little connection with the commonality between people apart that defined by some dumb national and ahistoric charecteristic.

I'm still not convinced that "nationalism-lite" is useful or is anti-establishment, it is more a lobby for more nationalism, more state intervention. Thats not to say we should shout "Nazi" at anyone wearing an england shirt. The strategy has to be clear. Break the influence and connection in "movements" like the EDL from any far-right agenda by targeting known activists. Initiate campaigns that are appealing to people who would go on an EDL demo but focusses itself on more progressive, and dare I say it, important struggles. I don't doubt that there are some really good people who are getting court up with EDL stuff, that are rightly dillusioned about their homeland and what to do something about it. Its our job to engage with them, problem is do WE have anything better to offer them?
 
sorry to say this but this is classim by numbers. ;)

You start of with these generalisations and expect to apply them to reality. If you forget the middle-class/working-class as some sort of defined behaviour then you might get a clearer idea of what the issue is.


Really?
 
I think this is perhaps what we may think of a certain generation - say 50-60 year olds. But it doesn't apply to most people. I think alot of w/c people saw the unions as divisive and pretty much the enemy in most instances, the same goes for political parties like Labour (new and old).

English nationalism has always been reactionary and xenophobic, tied closely with support for an imperialist state, British Army and royalist. You just have to look at the character and tone of any flag waving w/c person - there is little connection with the commonality between people apart that defined by some dumb national and ahistoric charecteristic.

I'm still not convinced that "nationalism-lite" is useful or is anti-establishment, it is more a lobby for more nationalism, more state intervention. Thats not to say we should shout "Nazi" at anyone wearing an england shirt. The strategy has to be clear. Break the influence and connection in "movements" like the EDL from any far-right agenda by targeting known activists. Initiate campaigns that are appealing to people who would go on an EDL demo but focusses itself on more progressive, and dare I say it, important struggles. I don't doubt that there are some really good people who are getting court up with EDL stuff, that are rightly dillusioned about their homeland and what to do something about it. Its our job to engage with them, problem is do WE have anything better to offer them?

yes good post .. and to clarify i am not saying 'nationalism-lite' is 'useful or anti establishment' .. i am saying it is a general reality and has to be understood IF we are to be able to even talk to most people let alone appeal to or win them
 
'fuk all u white cunts
u know were locking off your country pussyholes get ready to get battered tomorrow pricks'
Report


and the left will be defending arseholes like this? not exactly Cable St is it?
 
and i suggest u actually learn something about law and the changes which are being suggested u dumb chavs!! ur all here coz ur ignorant fukas frm ur council estates and ur 14 grandkids at the age of 19! ur juts a joke to us!!! seriously u have no class ur just CHAVS!!!! i have reverted more than 23 of my english friends to ISLAM!! RESPECTS TO ALL THE ASIANS ALL THE MUSLIMS!! ONE UMMAH!!!!


and this, not much to choose between the two protagonists is there?
 
In fact I don't know why you and durutti are defending these groups. Yes, there are people pissed off with Islamic extremism (rightly so), yes the Labour Party has abandoned the working class, yes so has most of the left. However, making common cause with the BNP is fucked up. This protest today in Brum is aligned with the far right, make no mistake. What the hell are you playing at defending it?
 
no one is defending it, but I dont see UAF comdemning islamic fundamentalism, in fact the SWP signed a document in Cairo who argues for attacking Uk naval units if they blockade Gaza, and they have invited all sorts of IF nutjobs onto their platforms, you have comdemned it, but the UAF/SWP crazies haven't.
 
Birmingham city centre protests: 31 arrested

Aug 8 2009
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RIOT police fought running battles with rival protesters last night as racial tensions spilled over on the streets of Birmingham.

West Midlands police arrested 31 people after violence broke out in the city centre between a group campaigning against Muslim extremists and members of an anti-BNP rally.Both protests, held in separate parts of the city centre, had been conducted peacefully until violent skirmishes broke out on New Street at about 7pm.

Terrified shoppers cowered in Primark and Saturday night revellers fled in panic as police clad in riot gear struggled to contain the random outbreaks of violence.




From the Birmingham Post
 
no one is defending it, but I dont see UAF comdemning islamic fundamentalism, in fact the SWP signed a document in Cairo who argues for attacking Uk naval units if they blockade Gaza, and they have invited all sorts of IF nutjobs onto their platforms, you have comdemned it, but the UAF/SWP crazies haven't.

I'm not sure what relevance this has to what I wrote.
 
What is this bullshit, as if Welsh people call themselves 'Taffies' anymore. Sounds like a bunch of coked up morons. The irony being that Wales is about 98% white people anyway, and outside of South Wales is about 99.5% white.

Its probably a load of BNPers pretending to be non-racist because they want Jeff Marsh and some tough Black people to beat up Muslims
 
Bloody hell! I was just down the road from there at about that time. Was completley oblivious to anything kicking off. God I'm dopey. :confused:
 
okay just got back from brum. I'm sure durutti02 will have a lot to say about what went on but here's my twopennethworth.

We arrived 5.30 down at the bullring, the corner of New street and High street. The uaf counter demo was in full flow, there was a loose cordon of police with 100 or so inside, many more outside. Almost all asian, black faces, very few white/lefty types at all. No swp paper sellers, although lots of uaf placards. Milling about outside few casual looking types (ie white football hoolie types/edl types) small clusters of black lads and lots of asians plus shoppers and curious on lookers. Bit of an atmopshere but no tension.

We walked up New street pedestrian way to the Council House (informed by a copper that's where the edl were meeting up) hung around the fountain and watched casual looking types, white hoolie types, begin to arrive in small groups by the main building. Police were in a very loose cordon around the plaza. Saw a couple of edl people bring all the placards and banners and watch the demo form up. Extremely strange banners that seem to tick all the pc boxes all with the edl logo. Someone had a big union jack an england flag (don't know if they brought them themselves) plus an israeli flag was draped on the fencing behind them. Started singing national anthem, chanting muslim bombers off our streets, around 60-70 in the loose police cordon, all white with 20-30 or so milling outside. Families and kids playing around the fountain, black lads on bikes looked on, as did 4 boneheads who obviously made a point of not joining the demo.

Suddenly a load of police left the edl cordon charged down to the top end of New street where it seemed a load of asian lads were making their way up. Police blocked the route and pushed them back down New Street and formed lines across the street. Riot police and police dogs were brought out. There was also a mobile metal fence erected as a kind of barrier. Edl were free to move (ie not penned in by police) but remained static against the Council House building.

We made our way around the side streets (being mistaken on the way for the bnp (!) by a group of drunks standing outside a bar) down to where the police had blocked the asian lads coming up New Street. Made our way back to the corner of New street/High street and the uaf demo where it looked like the police had cordoned everyone in.

Tensions were rising, volatile if unconfrontational atmosphere at that point. Suddenly a group of around 30 edl/football hoolies lads charged down from round High street towards the demo. Stopped half way and beckoned everyone to have a go. The asian lads just swarmed en masse towards them where the edl/football hoolies did a u-turn and ran like fuck, chased by hundreds of young asian lads. One or two of the younger more inexperienced hoolies got caught, fell and took a battering.

Hoolies tried to re-group at the bottom end of New street by M&S where there was another onslaught by the asian lads. Police were pretty slow of the mark.

After that it all got a bit surreal. We saw edl/football hoolies being chased all over the shop, riot police running in formation trying to keep up, groups of asian, black lads basically looking for "the bnp". Weird little things: a group of about 25 (white, asian, black, mixed race) looking like a proper youth firm after the edl mob, Edl/hoolie types wandering about untouched and unconfronted (it felt like gangs of lads were after gangs of lads rather than taking out individual white/edl/hoolie types), a load of young goth/emo kids in the park getting into it.

We tried to keep up with things ducking round side streets avoiding police lines, didn't feel threatened or intimidated despite being the only few white faces amongst a sea of asian/black faces. Didn't seem either that the asian lads were reinforcing their muslim identity.

Of course we weren't everywhere and we may have missed things but the bbc report (especially the eye witness account by gary nichols) is way off the mark.
 
Fantastic, pictures today in the papers of young whites lads on their own being beaten by a large mob of Asians/Muslims.
I am sure the BNP are delighted with that image.

Seen a report on the BBC where a moron from the UAF kept talking about the protesters being BNP, which is bollocks.
They had signs saying we are not the BNP, and anti BNP placards(much the same as the UAF's) and black and white unite!

Clearly not hard core football lads, just a bunch of young kids with something against Islam.
Reports of when the trouble started, of black and Asians lads attacking anyone white. Now that may be partially true, or not true at all, but it does not matter, that is the story which will gain credence.

A terrible photo of a mob of Asian youths dragging a union jack flag of an elderly man, more propaganda for the BNP.

Not long after the 2001 riots, the BNP got it's first council seat.
Pictures of single white males being beaten by Asians is a massive boost for the BNP, and they were not even there.

The event gave the image, true or false, of a very small number of white lads sticking up for ''ingerland'', and getting the crap beaten out of them by British hating Asians. That is the image which will be seen across Britain, even if false.

The UAF are the biggest bunch of fuckwits ever. They have in a single day made race relations even worse in the UK.
I fear next time some real football lads might turn up, and we will see some terrible race riots.
A few hundred more thousand votes for the BNP in the bag, well done the UAF.
 
Give me fucken strength

indeed .. typical leftist response

Pull your head out of you arse you fucken prick. I'm sick and fucking tired of you ignorant clowns dressing racism other up than what it is ...

... besides' as soon as I hear this "leftist" bullshit I can't help but switch off because the rest of what coming is the same old predictable regurgerated ignorant shit.

Next decade, and the one after, will see the same shit from the same ignorant fools because ...they all think their onto something new. Fuckwits.
Give me fucken strength.






Least the fights are worth watching... need more of that in Oz.
That's the go ... more knuckdraggers punching the fuck out each other ...while there doing that we do real politics.
 
"off our streets, muslim bombers." " we are not rascist, we are not BNP" and people were protesting against that?? Madness.
 
Fantastic, pictures today in the papers of young whites lads on their own being beaten by a large mob of Asians/Muslims.
I am sure the BNP are delighted with that image.

Seen a report on the BBC where a moron from the UAF kept talking about the protesters being BNP, which is bollocks.
They had signs saying we are not the BNP, and anti BNP placards(much the same as the UAF's) and black and white unite!

Clearly not hard core football lads, just a bunch of young kids with something against Islam.
Reports of when the trouble started, of black and Asians lads attacking anyone white. Now that may be partially true, or not true at all, but it does not matter, that is the story which will gain credence.

A terrible photo of a mob of Asian youths dragging a union jack flag of an elderly man, more propaganda for the BNP.

Not long after the 2001 riots, the BNP got it's first council seat.
Pictures of single white males being beaten by Asians is a massive boost for the BNP, and they were not even there.

The event gave the image, true or false, of a very small number of white lads sticking up for ''ingerland'', and getting the crap beaten out of them by British hating Asians. That is the image which will be seen across Britain, even if false.
The UAF are the biggest bunch of fuckwits ever. They have in a single day made race relations even worse in the UK.
I fear next time some real football lads might turn up, and we will see some terrible race riots.
A few hundred more thousand votes for the BNP in the bag, well done the UAF.

My bold

I agree 100% with what you've posted. The clips of savage asian mobs beating single white people while they were on the ground will have the BNP rubbing their hands in glee.

The UAF and Muslim extremists are between them the best recruiters the BNP can have. Shame on them.
 
The edl prats are not the point here. them getting chased around brum centre is not the point either - the bigger picture is what this does for the BNP, and as far i can tell this is brilliantt for them. Racialises stuff in brum where they've been strugglig to get a hold, ratchets the ternsion up - will give them a boost in Dudlely, Sandwell etc How much propoganda about 'pakis' taking over etc can they get out of this to sell to those without the full picture of what happened and why, they'd be utterly incompetent not to get bucket loads. And every other BNP branch nationally with a slightly up for it membership will now be seeking to follow their lead. Total fucking shambles that is going to be paraded as a victory for anti-fascism (more specfically for the UAF) for the next few years, locking anti-fascism into the exact same stuff that's helped lead us to the terrible postion that we're now in - despite this not being likely to touch the BNP in any negative way at all.
 
I support RevLon's account. I would want to say that it was a very surreal day. The UAF organised an "Anti-BNP" demo which was obviously targetted against the English Defence League. There was also people calling it a demo against the NF/Combat 18/Neo-Nazis...etc. So my first point was that the "BNP" brand was used to get people on the streets and it certainly worked, especially in mobilising alot of non-muslim black and asian people. There seemed to be a clear seperation between the English Defence League, who were 500+ metres away from the main UAF demo and numbered around 70 people, and groups of casuals in several pubs and in the surrounding streets that were up for a ruck with "asians".

I saw around 30-40 casuals charge down the street towards the main UAF demo. They ran about 30 metres and were met by around 150-200 strong group of mainly asian and black youth. The casuals turned and ran. A few got caught and were punched and kicked on to the floor by about 20-30 people before a few cops intervened. During this I heard a few asians shouting "get the white bastards!" and "kill the white bastards". We were with that group and because it was so racially divided we were concerned we could be set upon. However we weren't and it did seem like they were NOT attacking random white people. we even saw groups of casual-types walking past this main group and they weren't touched.

The old guy with the union jack looked like a local drunk and he was told repeatedly by the police to put his flag away. He must have been hanging around, staggering with his flag for about 30 minutes but must have moved as i didn't see him getting attacked.
 
Clearly not hard core football lads, just a bunch of young kids with something against Islam.
Hardcore old skool (mid to late 40's) hoolies were there, just had the nous to keep out of the way, not make themselves obvious. I think they sussed the numbers game pretty early on.

Reports of when the trouble started, of black and Asians lads attacking anyone white. Now that may be partially true, or not true at all, but it does not matter, that is the story which will gain credence.
Completely untrue. Not one hoolie type wandering about on their own was targeted. As i say it was gangs of lads looking for gangs of lads (up for a fight). Pics of young white lads on the ground were from when they got left behind after the edl/hoolie mob fronted up the asian lads then did a runner.

A terrible photo of a mob of Asian youths dragging a union jack flag of an elderly man, more propaganda for the BNP.
Okay this happened right at the very end after the hoolies had been runout of town and there was relative calm. He was a random very pissed up bloke nothing to do with the demo (he wasn't part of edl) who happened to get hold on the flag, basically randomly stumbling about shouting at people. Coppers wanted to take the flag off him at one point. Although of course the picture is a fabulous pr coup.
 
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