EnglishWelsh Defence League, British Campaign agin Muslim Extremist, Causuals United

[revlon]

the bigger picture will emerge as the bigger emerges with all sides making political capital out of the day.

i think people may be giving too much credit to the uaf, their presense impact and effect. The uaf demo was essentially penned in round the corner when it all kicked off with local asian lads hanging around who chased/attacked the hoolies (i've no doubt they would've done this anyway without the uaf being there).

In fact it felt like a local issue (with edl being the ones parachuting in) resolved by local asian lads. Racialised certainly but they weren't defending or reinforcing a muslim identity, which of course doesn't mean anything against graphic images of lone whites being attacked by a group of asians.

 

[durruti02]

According to a police spokesperson on Talksport they didn't ban this event because it's important to 'allow democratic protest'!

He also never mentioned the EWDL, but said that "Casuals United" were the organisors of the "protests". It was also made clear that this group had never been in contact with the police to discuss their intentions?

The police must have realised that these "casuals" were there for a ruck with Asian lads and as expected were the first to start trouble by charging UAF protestors. These casuals then bottled it and ran when they met with a group of mainly Asian and black youth, who rightly defended themselves.

It seems odd then that the police allowed this to go ahead?

1) there is a split between CU and EDL ( see lionheart blog)

2) the EDL do NOT appear to have been involved in any rucking .. the casuals who were do nota ppear to have been at the EDL demo .. maybe this was organised this way .. i can not say

3) it was the asian lads who attacked first as far as we could see .. they attempted to get to the EDL demo, were driven back and then the casuals appeared

 

[durruti02]

EDL are the BNP's sacrificial lambs. (obviously).

no not obviously .. they had banners clearly attacking nazis and saying they were not BNP .. and there is a political row going on behind the scenes

BUT yes your point may be right

 

[Slugger_O'Toole]

I realise now what UAF stands for; Unite All Fascists. I suppose it's a group set up and covertly run by the BNP.

 

[audiotech]

lionhearts latest blog doesn't really clarify matters at all!

No?

It has been brought to my attention today that Chris Renton will not be attending the protest tomorrow, so he has caused the division with me and those who I have worked with for many months, leading to the split. He then blamed it all on me, which turned people against me, and then he jumps ship on the day after causing all of the infighting.

Says it all really!

Talk about agent provocateur.

 

[audiotech]

3) it was the asian lads who attacked first as far as we could see ..

Were you there? I wasn't btw.

Others who were there have said:

Suddenly a group of around 30 edl/football hoolies lads charged down from round High street towards the demo. Stopped half way and beckoned everyone to have a go. The asian lads just swarmed en masse towards them where the edl/football hoolies did a u-turn and ran like fuck, chased by hundreds of young asian lads.

I saw around 30-40 casuals charge down the street towards the main UAF demo. They ran about 30 metres and were met by around 150-200 strong group of mainly asian and black youth. The casuals turned and ran.

 

[FreddyB]

1) there is a split between CU and EDL ( see lionheart blog)

This split seems to have been completely fabricated as a response to it being publicised that EDL website was put up by a BNP member.

 

[FreddyB]

The edl prats are not the point here. them getting chased around brum centre is not the point either - the bigger picture is what this does for the BNP, and as far i can tell this is brilliantt for them. Racialises stuff in brum where they've been strugglig to get a hold, ratchets the ternsion up - will give them a boost in Dudlely, Sandwell etc How much propoganda about 'pakis' taking over etc can they get out of this to sell to those without the full picture of what happened and why, they'd be utterly incompetent not to get bucket loads. And every other BNP branch nationally with a slightly up for it membership will now be seeking to follow their lead. Total fucking shambles that is going to be paraded as a victory for anti-fascism (more specfically for the UAF) for the next few years, locking anti-fascism into the exact same stuff that's helped lead us to the terrible postion that we're now in - despite this not being likely to touch the BNP in any negative way at all.

This is about right. The only good thing is the timing. This will be old by the time the elections come round.

 

[durruti02]

Wow, simplified down even further - you should be a general or something - and with as a side order attempt to say that those who disagree with your counter-productive side-line cheering are scabs, or the equivalent. Every strike takes account of tactics, analyses what the likely results are of taking certain actions at certain times are. They don't just grunt urgh -get 'em.

he he General Haig lol

spion ( interesting choice of name you have not got f'ing clue whats going on in the world

 

[durruti02]

No?

how does it clarify? what does it prove? who does it show as in charge?

 

[durruti02]

Were you there? I wasn't btw.

Others who were there have said:

yes of course i was there ..

that was later .. re read revlon's account

 

[Raw SslaC]

We couldn't tell who attacked first to be honest. Which isn't important, as both sides wanted to fight. From our end it was a group of 5 or 6 black and asain lads chasing another group, with a few bottles being thrown - this to my knowledge was the first skirmished that happened. What was reported later with the 30-40 hoolies attempting to steam in at the site of the UAF demo was maybe 30-40 minutes later. There was also another significant incident in the park with a hail of bottles and cans being thrown onto the hoolies, who were barricading themselves into the park.

 

[audiotech]

how does it clarify? what does it prove? who does it show as in charge?

Certainly clarifies that some with links to the BNP have infiltrated this group in order to take charge and engage in provocation.

 

[durruti02]

Certainly clarifies that some with links to the BNP have infiltrated this group in order to take charge and engage in provocation.

yes that was known the months ago .. what Paul Rays blog does not clarify is who actually does now run EDL then

 

[Raw SslaC]

yes that was known the months ago .. what Paul Rays blog does not clarify is who actually does now run EDL then

His statement suggests its Chris Renton and his brother

 

[durruti02]

His statement suggests its Chris Renton and his brother

but then he says this

"It has been brought to my attention today that Chris Renton will not be attending the protest tomorrow, so he has caused the division with me and those who I have worked with for many months, leading to the split. He then blamed it all on me, which turned people against me, and then he jumps ship on the day after causing all of the infighting."

 

[durruti02]

btw the BNP website is not covering EDL/CU or yesterday at all

 

[sonny61]

From the BBC:

"It started off with a group of white guys who were chanting 'England, England'. I thought they were just football fans, but then a larger group of black and Asian people turned up and it all kicked off.
Youths drag a Union flag from a man's hands

"You had people burning the Union flag. People were being kicked - some of them weren't anything to do with the protests.''

It is claimed one of the white guys seen on the floor being kicked in by a mob of Asians, had nothing to do with the protest. He had in fact just been mugged, and when the Asains seen him they thought he was one of the ''ingerland'' protesters and attacked him. Some Asians could be facing racially aggravated assault.

What's that noise I hear?
I think it is the sound of champagne bottles opening at BNP HQ.
Griffin would not piss on those EDL protesters, but he will be rubbing his hands in glee tonight.

 

[Pickman's model]

btw the BNP website is not covering EDL/CU or yesterday at all

not quite

Nick Griffin: An Audio Response To Birmingham Troubles Yesterday
August 9, 2009 - By BNP

 

[DotCommunist]

While I am sure griffin might be wanking off to the propaganda opportunities here, do you expect asian and black youths to not react angrily to such provocation? They can wave all the 'we aint racists guv, honest' banners they want but it is thinly vieled stuff. 'the left' were pretty much a side issue from what we saw here- this was pure racial tension. Provoked by EDL running dogs.

I can't believe I just used the phrase running dogs with a straight face


e2a 'with glee' not 'in glee'

in suggests the glee is a separate object.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

They went up there with the express intention of starting a fight, and made very sure that everyone they wanted to fight with knew that they were going to be there, as well as physically calling people out when they were there - I'm not sure how it could not have ended up with a fight tbh. If UAF hadn't been there at all there still would have been one.

 

[treelover]

Its bad news all round: with binary oppositions hardening, i fear it won't be the last one, in fact it isn't: there is another one on their 'home turf' Luton

 

[Slugger_O'Toole]

A picture of a group of EDL, they're pointing out that they are not BNP and not racist.

http://i26.tinypic.com/ogazva.jpg

 

[tbaldwin]

Yeah i think its bad news. But maybe not all that important. Sadly i have to agree with fridge magnet, the edl lot probably did want to wind people up and cause a bit of a row. And yeah not altogether suprising some would take the bait.

I think the more important issue for people on the left is how to both oppose racism and fundamental religious bigots.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah i think its bad news. But maybe not all that important. Sadly i have to agree with fridge magnet, the edl lot probably did want to wind people up and cause a bit of a row. And yeah not altogether suprising some would take the bait.

I think the more important issue for people on the left is how to both oppose racism and fundamental religious bigots.

and what about fascism?

 

[Joe Reilly]

If UAF hadn't been there at all there still would have been one.

Thats naive. The UAF played the fundamental role of promoting the event and mobilising local Asian youngsters. The ANL remember did the same in Bradford. Once it kicked off they stood back. The only possible beneficaries are the BNP. Such scenes fit tidily into their agenda of inter communal strife.

 

[tbaldwin]

and what about fascism?

Not quite sure what you mean on that pickmans. But i think that fascism(and religious fundamentalism)can grow in terms of economic uncertainty when all other options look discredited.

I guess the job for anti fascists is to either support or create political alternatives to the likes of the BNP. And to point out what a bunch of tossers the BNP are.
When it comes to the EDL i think its a bit more complicated.

 

[Pickman's model]

what i mean is that you seem to have picked up on racism and islamic nutters, but missed out some important aspects of fascism, eg the idea of salvation through national renewal.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Thats naive. The UAF played the fundamental role of promoting the event and mobilising local Asian youngsters. The ANL remember did the same in Bradford. Once it kicked off they stood back. The only possible beneficaries are the BNP. Such scenes fit tidily into their agenda of inter communal strife.

They didn't play a "fundamental role" promoting the event - that was done by the actual organisers, who made sure it got publicity because they wanted a fight, after all, and, er, threads like this - though I'll grant they contributed - and from all accounts it looks like what they did when there was tap into a pre-existing group of people who had come together independent of the UAF.

 

[Harold Hill]

No doubt to me the UAF used the EDL for their own ends. References in interviews to the BNP say it all. Drip drip drip, make people think its the BNp even if it isn't.

EDL and casuals United are just as responsible for allowing themselves to be used by having no clear raison detre. Naive at best. If they didn't want frothing lefties marching against them and Muslim lads trying to kick the fuck out of em, they should have been a little cleverer in their self promotion. Protesting against Muslim extremism in Birmingham for no reason is pointless. Chasing Mr Choudhary around AFA style might leave the UAF in an untenible position to oppose them, publicly at least.

Another thing, from attending England games, people vastly overrate the organisation of football firms and probably the Muslim youth as well. Almost certain innocent members of the public have and will get caught up as a consequence. It's really nothing to applaud.