England's Euro 2020 Exploits

[brogdale]

I heard a R5 Nicky Campbell phone-in during which one participant said that the booing was, not because of racism/bigotry, but solely due to the symbolism of the knee being allied to the "Marxist" BLM movement. They went to suggest that another, act of symbolic solidarity would be fine for the boo-boy bigots, to which Campbell suggested a standing, raised-fist salute and the punter thought that would be fine!

 

[The39thStep]

well by knobjockeys banging on about marxism and BLM being racist etc. so it's become another culture war battle - hence tables of which country will do it and which country won't. i.e. a division.

The labelling of BLM began last year. The players who take the knee see it as an expression of unity against racism . I’m far from certain that Harry Kane wants to nationalise the means of production but I remain to be convinced .

 

[JimW]

A proper Marxist gesture would be to get together in a big huddle then split into four or five squabbling smaller groups.

 

[The39thStep]

A proper Marxist gesture would be to get together in a big huddle then split into four or five squabbling smaller groups.

Even worse would be some anarchist solution about how the groups should be composed and in what way the discussion should be held .

 

[belboid]

A proper Marxist gesture would be to get together in a big huddle then split into four or five squabbling smaller groups.

So the French team are usually Marxists then?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I support the gesture, not being a racist or an idiot and all that, but feel maybe they should have moved on after end of PL and maybe launched some new initiatives. unfortunately now seems to be hijacked and misunderstood (of course, often deliberately) to the point of somewhat defeating the point of promoting unity.

I don't necessarily think it's been hijacked, but I do wonder if it's almost become habitual, more of a 'gesture', less of an action, and quite where things go from here.

Definitely not asserting that's what has happened, I'm genuinely not sure, and if players still think it has value and weight then I'm all for them continuing to do it.

All that said, is this a discussion that deserves a thread of its own, given we've moved onto the broader point and the actions (or not) of other teams?

Just feel like it might get weird having posts discussing the merits of action against racial injustice interspersed with "so, flat four or back three plus wingbacks? and "Maguire, y'twat, just hoof it!". Might just be me, though

 

[Argonia]

I remember watching Gareth Southgate playing for the Palace in the 1990s and he was on a different level to the other players. He's a good man is Gareth.

 

[The39thStep]

I remember watching Gareth Southgate playing for the Palace in the 1990s and he was on a different level to the other players. He's a good man is Gareth.

A good man is hard to find

 

[JimW]

I don't necessarily think it's been hijacked, but I do wonder if it's almost become habitual, more of a 'gesture', less of an action, and quite where things go from here.

Definitely not asserting that's what has happened, I'm genuinely not sure, and if players still think it has value and weight then I'm all for them continuing to do it.

All that said, is this a discussion that deserves a thread of its own, given we've moved onto the broader point and the actions (or not) of other teams?

Just feel like it might get weird having posts discussing the merits of action against racial injustice interspersed with "so, flat four or back three plus wingbacks? and "Maguire, y'twat, just hoof it!". Might just be me, though

I'm not keen on gestures generally but as has been pointed out this seems to be something a young group of players want to do to show they care more about their BME mates than the arsehole section of the support so more power to them is my current view.

 

[stavros]

I remember watching Gareth Southgate playing for the Palace in the 1990s and he was on a different level to the other players. He's a good man is Gareth.

They had some other decent players then, didn't they? Wright left in 1991, but Bright stayed there, and John Salako wasn't bad. I think they had Nigel Martyn in goal too.

 

[Argonia]

They had some other decent players then, didn't they? Wright left in 1991, but Bright stayed there, and John Salako wasn't bad. I think they had Nigel Martyn in goal too.

Indeed.

 

[Argonia]

They had some other decent players then, didn't they? Wright left in 1991, but Bright stayed there, and John Salako wasn't bad. I think they had Nigel Martyn in goal too.

The others were useful but time just seemed to slow down when he got the ball.

 

[Badgers]

Dean Henderson is ruled out of the remainder of the tournament

 

[Sprocket.]

Dean Henderson is ruled out of the remainder of the tournament

Aaron Ramsdale, currently at Sheffield Utd called up. I heard Spurs and Wolves were interested in him?

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Aaron Ramsdale, currently at Sheffield Utd called up. I heard Spurs and Wolves were interested in him?

Both of whom have experienced, reputable international goalkeepers slowly coming towards the end of their respective careers.

Given that Pickford and Henderson are both now regulars for teams towards the upper end of the Premier, would be good to see another young English goalie getting a shot at a decent team (and I do include both Wolves and Spurs within that description). Sam Johnstone potentially another on the move too.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Dean Henderson is ruled out of the remainder of the tournament

Aaron Ramsdale, currently at Sheffield Utd called up.

How's that work, given the tournament has started? Is it because he's a 'keeper, or due to the particular reasons he was ruled out?

Either way, sucks for him, obviously. Obviously it's harder for 'keepers to get on the pitch than other positions, but still imagine he'd rather be part of it than not?

 

[Sprocket.]

How's that work, given the tournament has started? Is it because he's a 'keeper, or due to the particular reasons he was ruled out?

Either way, sucks for him, obviously. Obviously it's harder for 'keepers to get on the pitch than other positions, but still imagine he'd rather be part of it than not?

Henderson is injured, hip problems. Under UEFA rules goalkeepers can be replaced on medical grounds at anytime.

 

[Diamond]

BLM at footie stuff - have been thinking a bit about this and the idea of rituals.

Rituals are extremely important to most societies. At one end you have rite of passage stuff, such as a bar/batmitzvah or quinceanera, and then at the other you have everyday rituals which are usually religious (praying, taking sacraments etc etc).

In modern Britain we have very few rituals. Yet there also seems to be a fierce desire to instantiate new ones.

The problem is that people on the BLM side are not being 100% honest about what their ritual entails. BLM protestors who argue that taking the knee is simply a symbolic anti-racism gesture ignore the fact that there are already deep (and, in modern Britain, comparatively rare) rituals that normally take place at that point in the singing of the national anthem. There is clearly a tension there, especially so if players fail to sing lustily and then take the knee.

And I think it is plainly unreasonable to pretend that the gesture is a small thing. If it is a small thing then why is it so important to do...?

At the moment we have a deeply silly state of affairs where some people are pretending that a new ritual is no big deal while also insisting that it must be observed and that people are evil if they do not do so.

All in a society that has carefully scrubbed out most of its rituals, especially the communitarian ones, over the preceding 50-75 years....

 

[Diamond]

Of course, this isn't helped at all by the fact that many of the players are subject to racist abuse on social media so no doubt this feels very personal to them.

 

[ska invita]

Its going to pish all day on Friday - should be a classic British encounter - the rain probably an advantage for Scotland

 

[tommers]

 

[Lord Camomile]

It's alright Rio, lots of people got overexcited, can't all have the cool-headed insight of those like me

 

[Diamond]

Cycling through town yesterday, I noticed quite a lot of young lads, English and Scots, sporting what looked to be Euro 96-era garb, as a kind of ironic thing I suppose (including that remarkably ugly grey England shirt).

Baddiel and Skinner's version of support cannibalised and then replaced the earlier version is what it looks like...

 

[Badgers]

Think I know what has gone wrong

The brass band are not there!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maltin]

Cycling through town yesterday, I noticed quite a lot of young lads, English and Scots, sporting what looked to be Euro 96-era garb, as a kind of ironic thing I suppose (including that remarkably ugly grey England shirt).

Baddiel and Skinner's version of support cannibalised and then replaced the earlier version is what it looks like...

Why ironic?

Seen quite a lot of retro England kits recently. Most popular one in the pub last night was the 1990 blue away kit.

Saw my first car with England flags on today too.

 

[Kaka Tim]

what the fuck is up with Kane? great season for spurs in the prem. had about 6 touches against scotalnd. and was anonymous against Croatia. And sterling is well off the pace as well.

 

[Diamond]

Why ironic?

Seen quite a lot of retro England kits recently. Most popular one in the pub last night was the 1990 blue away kit.

Saw my first car with England flags on today too.

These are quite hard-to-find kits (mid-90s stuff) being worn by lads in their 20s. Definitely a sense of fancy-dress to it, for me. Coupled with other mid-90s stuff like ocean-colour-scene-style hats and very round sunglasses.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Oh aye, England be fucked

 

[Badgers]

Kane confirmed to start

 

[Lord Camomile]

This has not altered my assessment.