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England vs Belgium (Group G) - 19:00 - 28/06/2018

Final Score


  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .
Group G Winners
R16: Colombia, Japan or Senegal
QF: Mexico or Brazil
SF: Uruguay, Portugal, France or Argentina

Group G Runners Up
R16: Colombia, Japan or Senegal
QF: Sweden or Swiss
SF: Spain, Russia, Croatia or Denmark

Have to say - the 2nd place route to the semis does look somewhat easier. Mexico or Brazil both look a lot more dangerous than the swiss or the swedes. And the belgiums will be of the same mind.

might end up with the situation where both teams are trying to collect more bookings than the other in order to ensure a 2nd place finish without losing the game.
 
Like when you ONLY had to play Iceland in the Euros, it doesn't do any good forecasting who you might play and thinking theres any easy games at this stage!

Well I just meant that we shouldn't be disappointed if we get beat by Belgium - unless the performance is piss-poor.
 
Like when you ONLY had to play Iceland in the Euros, it doesn't do any good forecasting who you might play and thinking theres any easy games at this stage!
I'm firmly in the "take the easy route" school. Give me Japan> Sweden over Colombia> Brazil any day of the week. We'd be run ragged by the semi's taking the latter route.
 
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Yes, second place is by far the better route.

Play out a bore all draw and in the last 5 minutes bring on the reserve keepers to pick up a couple of cheap bookings. Taking a shirt off to celebrate a throw in? Arguing with the referee over the shape of the ball?
 
i think southgate is right. go for the win. build momentum - entertain. going out to brazil in the q-finals (should we get there) after a spirited effort and kane taking home the golden boot would be better than going out to the swedes on penalties after trying to cynically play the percentages. playing for second place creates the wrong mentality for this team - they are young and enthusiastic and want to win.
 
i think southgate is right. go for the win. build momentum - entertain. going out to brazil in the q-finals (should we get there) after a spirited effort and kane taking home the golden boot would be better than going out to the swedes on penalties after trying to cynically play the percentages. playing for second place creates the wrong mentality for this team - they are young and enthusiastic and want to win.
Yup

I do suspect that the second half will have less momentum or entertainment from both sides
 
i think southgate is right. go for the win. build momentum - entertain. going out to brazil in the q-finals (should we get there) after a spirited effort and kane taking home the golden boot would be better than going out to the swedes on penalties after trying to cynically play the percentages. playing for second place creates the wrong mentality for this team - they are young and enthusiastic and want to win.

I agree. Give it a go and see what happens.

We've not seen the teams yet but the noise does seem to be that Belgium will be more likely of the two to try and game the situation. Leave them to it, I reckon.
 
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If we don't have our innate moral superiority to the rest of the world then we have nothing.

English sport is generally at its best when it adopts a 'We'll take you on, any time, anywhere'* attitude.



* and lose mostly, but that's not the point. Oh glorious defeat...
 
Permutations is the Word of the Day:
World Cup 2018: Is it easier if England finish second in group?
If you just look at that chart in terms of reasonable expectations/percentages, the 'lose route' only really has Spain as a likely lose. I know it won't work out like that, but the reasonable expectations are the thing that should be in Southgate's mind. Trouble is, there's no easy way of getting to that point without all the loss of momentum, reputational damage and the rest. I suspect what will decide it is Southgate knows he'd be battered by the press if does go for lose and then gets beaten by Japan or somebody in the next round. Same time, gaaah, lose really is an attractive route...
 
In fairness I can still see Colombia winning the other group. Aside from Brazil, Spain and France I'd say the two other teams best avoided are Colombia and Uruguay.

ETA: Thinking about it pretty much the worst scenario (apart from being gubbed by Belgium) is England topping the group and Colombia coming second in theirs.

Now that would be a tough route to the final.
 
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Brazil & Croatia are the ones to avoid I think.

Then you've got people like Uruguay, Colombia, France, Spain, Belgium who would all probably beat us.

We can't avoid all of them. Might as well play it straight and see what happens.
 
Brazil & Croatia are the ones to avoid I think.

Then you've got people like Uruguay, Colombia, France, Spain, Belgium who would all probably beat us.

We can't avoid all of them. Might as well play it straight and see what happens.
I think you are right on the underlined bit, but there are plenty more pitfalls as winners. I'd go as far as saying we'd be favourites to get to the semis in the lose scenario. But yeah, ultimately, how would 'not trying' even work, particularly as a team talk before the game? Hard to know how the game will played as well, nobody will want to get injured but the lads who come in for their first game will want to do well.
 
Guardian reporting that Kane is on the bench.

Jamie Vardy is to make his first World Cup start in England’s final Group G game against Belgium this evening, with the tournament’s top scorer to date, Harry Kane, set to start the match on the bench.

Gareth Southgate is to make a number of changes to his lineup with progress into the knockout phase already secured, with Vardy – who came off the bench in the 6-1 win over Panama – to begin the game up front. Kane had indicated to the manager that he wanted to start the game in Kaliningrad, and add to his tally of five goals to date, but it appears as if the side’s captain will have to make do with a place among the substitutes.

Raheem Sterling has been rested for the fixture, with Marcus Rashford the likeliest to start alongside Vardy up front. The Leicester City forward’s pace will be seen as a potent weapon on the counter-attack against the Belgians, who will see more of the ball than England’s two previous opponents in the group. Kyle Walker, who picked up a yellow card conceding a penalty against Tunisia, is also likely to be rested, with Phil Jones and Gary Cahill expected to start alongside John Stones in the back three.

Eric Dier will play in defensive midfield and may captain the team, while Danny Rose will feature at left wing-back. Fabian Delph, who will return home to attend the birth of his third child after the game, has been pressing for a place in midfield and could come in for Ruben Loftus-Cheek, while Trent Alexander-Arnold could also feature given Kieran Trippier has been nursing a slight injury in the build-up.
 
Kane aside, while it's hard to tell what is reporting and what is speculation, that sounds like almost a completely different team, which is concerning.
 
its kind of win-win though isn't it?
if we win the game (or draw but still top the group) - hooray - we're on a roll! - momentum!
if we lose - never mind - weakened team - but now we are faves for the semis! clever old gareth!
 
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