Driving Standards

[Spymaster]

Eyes off the road before pulling away.

Only if you're an idiot.

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah, but you're only looking cos you're waiting for a bike to come past before opening the door...

No. I look because I don't want my door damaged by a moron on a twat machine.

 

[Badgers]

Only if you're an idiot.

75%+ of UK drivers then

 

[Teaboy]

Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.

Its about making the point that it is never acceptable to use a phone when driving. If you're parked up that's one thing but sat in traffic you should still be giving the road your full attention. You're either driving or your not. The drink driving law doesn't make a distinction.

 

[BigTom]

Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.

Current best evidence shows that the distraction of using a phone (or similar things) whilst stationary lasts for about 30 seconds after you stop using the phone (or whatever): Up to 27 seconds of inattention after talking to your car or smartphone
so there's good reason to think about whether it's safe to stop paying attention whilst you are stationary, especially if you can't know when traffic is going to start moving again - a stop/start situation is very different to being sat at a set of lights you know has long phases or on a motorway when there's clearly been a collision or something ahead of you.

I don't think there should be mandatory ban for any stationary vehicle but there's enough situations where you are stationary but only for a short period of time and in a place where a hazard can appear quickly that you can't just say it's not dangerous to use a phone whilst stationary and that there shouldn't be bans for this occurrence.

edit: just re-read this and I think I've got triple or quadruple negatives in the last sentence! Hope it makes sense to anyone else reading it... basically it can be dangerous to use a phone while stationary, there are plenty of situations where it would be, and the danger doesn't end when you put your phone down. Sure there are some situations where it's almost certainly little to no risk but there's no blanket statement to be made here, it's very circumstantial.

 

[Spymaster]

If you're parked up that's one thing but sat in traffic you should still be giving the road your full attention. You're either driving or your not.

Nonsense.

The drink driving law doesn't make a distinction.

Silly comparison. If you're sitting in a traffic jam pissed, you're unlikely to be sober when it starts moving.

 

[Teaboy]

Nonsense.

Don't be silly, of course you should be. Things are happening all around you. Motorbikes weaving through traffic, pedestrians crossing, cars trying to merge from side roads. This is really basic stuff. People are always going into the back of others in traffic jams because they are not paying attention.

This is already the law anyway with mobile phones so we are simply arguing about suitable punishment.

ETA: Would a ban of 3 months fit the crime? Possibly not but we are at a stage where the use of phones whilst driving is so normalised that they should send a very clear message in the same way they have done and are doing with other motoring offences.

 

[Badgers]

If you're sitting in a traffic jam pissed, you're unlikely to be sober when it starts moving.

Given the fucking traffic on the roads it is possible to sober up in a jam

 

[Badgers]

I don't think there should be mandatory ban for any stationary vehicle

I do

Maybe with staggered sentences?
Say 1 month ban for first offence?

Would be an incentive to start giving a fuck about other people perhaps?

 

[Spymaster]

Things are happening all around you. Motorbikes weaving through traffic, pedestrians crossing, cars trying to merge from side roads. People are always going into the back of others in traffic jams because they are not paying attention.

More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.

 

[BigTom]

I do

Maybe with staggered sentences?
Say 1 month ban for first offence?

Would be an incentive to start giving a fuck about other people perhaps?

Enforcement is what will make the difference, not bigger penalties. 6 points plus a big fine is enough for most people to stop if they think they will get caught, 2 of those and you're on a ban anyway (1 if you are a new driver).

 

[BigTom]

More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.

That's not what teaboy was saying and you know it.

 

[Teaboy]

More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.

I bet they have now we have driverless cars.

 

[hash tag]

Only if you're an idiot.

Or distracted, which many drivers often are.

 

[hash tag]

Not only a ban while using a device while driving but also confiscate that device. The confiscation of the device would really hit some people and would take some explaining, thus helping to spread the word it is not acceptable.

 

[T & P]

What about quickly checking a text or indeed any kind of information (weather app for instance) taking no more than 10 seconds while sitting in stationary traffic not moving in the immediate future? Anyone here thinks punishments should be enforced, or are deserved?

 

[Badgers]

What about quickly checking a text or indeed any kind of information (weather app for instance) taking no more than 10 seconds while sitting in stationary traffic not moving in the immediate future? Anyone here thinks punishments should be enforced, or are deserved?

I do yes

 

[T & P]

I do yes

But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?

 

[Badgers]

But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?

Was it safe to do so?

 

[Teaboy]

But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?

My touch screen sat nav doesn't work unless the car is in neutral and hand break on. The idea being that you should be parked up when using it, people shouldn't really be playing with sat nav mid journey. It just takes a minute or two to set up prior to starting your journey.

There is a wider point here about how easily distracted drivers can be these days because of all the gadgets and stuff we have in our cars and to hand. Its quite hard for the law to legislate in these regards. There is obviously a sliding scale here obviously but we surely all want the roads to be safer? Its clear to anyone that does any reasonable level of driving that phone use is rampant and not really seen as a problem. I think we are at the stage where there needs to be a change in attitude brought about.

 

[T & P]

Was it safe to do so?

Say in the same situation as the hypothetical driver looking at his mobile phone- stationary traffic.

 

[Badgers]

Say in the same situation as the hypothetical driver looking at his mobile phone- stationary traffic.

So all the other road users and pedestrians are about?

 

[T & P]

My touch screen sat nav doesn't work unless the car is in neutral and hand break on. The idea being that you should be parked up when using it, people shouldn't really be playing with sat nav mid journey. It just takes a minute or two to set up prior to starting your journey.

There is a wider point here about how easily distracted drivers can be these days because of all the gadgets and stuff we have in our cars and to hand. Its quite hard for the law to legislate in these regards. There is obviously a sliding scale here obviously but we surely all want the roads to be safer? Its clear to anyone that does any reasonable level of driving that phone use is rampant and not really seen as a problem. I think we are at the stage where there needs to be a change in attitude brought about.

There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.

But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.

 

[T & P]

So all the other road users and pedestrians are about?

Let me try to get to the business end of this exchange to save us time. Do you believe there is any situation whatsoever in which using a satnav while on a car journey, including being stationary but not parked, can be done safely?

If the answer is yes, do you believe the same can be said of briefly looking at a phone screen in exactly the same circumstances?

 

[Teaboy]

There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.

But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.

Setting a sat nav clearly requires more attention than notching the temperature down or changing the radio channel. Unless of course you're just hitting the take me home button but then again why not just do that before setting off?

But in general this is what I am getting at with all these distractions. Changing a setting on a button in front of you whilst still having most focus on the road is clearly not an issue. Sticking your head down to read all your whatsapp messages is distracting. How many times does the traffic move off and there is someone sat there still looking at the phone. Then someone beeps and then said person realises and moves off without checking whats going on around them.

Its a sliding scale as I say and it would be better if we all took it upon ourselves to do as little fucking around with gadgets as possible when driving. It needs to be about changing bad habits that have become normal for driving, for all of us. Note: I work in field based job and have a company car so its not like I don't do any driving and include myself in all this.

 

[mauvais]

There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.

But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.

This isn't true, in either paragraph. How much of a deal it is, I don't exactly know, but as you define it in absolutes, it's not true.

 

[Badgers]

Do you believe there is any situation whatsoever in which using a satnav while on a car journey, including being stationary but not parked, can be done safely?

There are variables but using a device be a flat no

 

[platinumsage]

It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.

 

[Spymaster]

It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.

It’s also currently legal to use it for interactive communications as long as it’s not in your hand .

 

[Teaboy]

It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.

Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?