Girlfriend caught driving without insurance - and it's my fault

[smmudge]

On the flip side I've worked in complaints for regulated financial services and 100% didn't give a crap at any time that going to the FOS would cost the company £750 and never had any indication to do so by my managers. A regulatory requirement of financial services is to act with integrity so they shouldn't be offering you anything just so you don't go to the FOS.

so hopefully you don't get someone diligent like me

 

[danski]

With their flagrant disregard for the law, Fez909 and his gf, earlier

 

[MBV]

Yeah unlikely the insurers will roll back on this for the sake of the FOS fee and the OP turned off the auto renew option.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

On the flip side I've worked in complaints for regulated financial services and 100% didn't give a crap at any time that going to the FOS would cost the company £750 and never had any indication to do so by my managers. A regulatory requirement of financial services is to act with integrity so they shouldn't be offering you anything just so you don't go to the FOS.

so hopefully you don't get someone diligent like me

It could lead to an investigation though. The company claims they sent out letters that Fez says weren't received. It isn't just trying it on.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It could lead to an investigation though. The company claims they sent out letters that Fez says weren't received. It isn't just trying it on.

And, the Royal Mail is fucking shit, and fails to deliver letters all the time.

 

[MickiQ]

It could lead to an investigation though. The company claims they sent out letters that Fez says weren't received. It isn't just trying it on.

They can prove they sent a letter, the computer says so. The person that the OP spoke to didn't just assume that, he/she called the records up on their screen and read out what it said. Their manager would accept that as proof. The Ombudman would accept the insurance companies computer records as proof before any claim by a customer that they didn't receive a letter which by its nature is unprovable.
The FSO can only investigate and make awards where the insurance company has failed to follow proper process and there is no reason other than the OP's claim they have.
Why should the Ombudsman believe that the letter didn't arrive over whether it did and was just ignored or lost or just forgotten about? and it's still the vehicle's owners responsbility to check reminder or not. What the insurance company isn't going to do since there is absoutely no reason for them to do so is issue a backdated certificate to before the OP's g/f got stopped which is what is needed.

Regarding the OP; speak to a motoring lawyer, but I think she’s going to have to take the points unless you tell the old bill that you assured her that she was insured, in which case you’d get the points.

Can you do that ? I know if it's a company vehicle then there is an absolute defence in that it's the employer's responsbility to ensure the vehicle is taxed/insured etc the argument being it's unreasonable for a postman for example to be expected to check every single time he checks out one of the GPO's many thousands of vans. I don't know if that excuse would fly with a couple though since she really could ask the OP if the vehicle was taxed/insured.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'll use this thread to highlight something I was unaware of until relatively recently.

If your car insurance covers you to drive another vehicle third party, that vehicle must have valid insurance in someone's name.

Some years ago I drove a car back to my daughter's from an auction, assuming that my insurance covered me, it didn't, as the other car was uninsured. I wasn't stopped, but had I been...

Was everyone else aware of this?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'll use this thread to highlight something I was unaware of until relatively recently.

If your car insurance covers you to drive another vehicle third party, that vehicle must have valid insurance in someone's name.

Some years ago I drove a car back to my daughter's from an auction, assuming that my insurance covered me, it didn't, as the other car was uninsured. I wasn't stopped, but had I been...

Was everyone else aware of this?

i wasn't, but not sure i've had to drive another vehicle in those circumstances.

i have recently bought a new (to me) car - the trader did have details of a temporary insurance deal for circumstances where people hadn't got their insurance sorted out,

 

[Elpenor]

I believe you can get insurance policies which take effect as soon as you open their proprietary app and it works by the minute or something?

Supposedly this is used by food delivery drivers / riders who can open the app to get the relevant insurance as soon as they’ve taken on a job (or get pulled over)

 

[MickiQ]

I'll use this thread to highlight something I was unaware of until relatively recently.

If your car insurance covers you to drive another vehicle third party, that vehicle must have valid insurance in someone's name.

Some years ago I drove a car back to my daughter's from an auction, assuming that my insurance covered me, it didn't, as the other car was uninsured. I wasn't stopped, but had I been...

Was everyone else aware of this?

That might be an insurance company specific thing, my certificate say this :-

MickiQ may also drive with the owner's permission a motor car not owned by them and that is not a hire, rental or courtesy car, unless we have provided or arranged it; and not hired or leased to them under a hire purchase or annual leasing agreement.

and the relevant page in the policy document says this:-

If the main driver is driving another car The main driver may be covered for liability to others when driving another car. If they’re covered:
You’ll see this on your certificate of motor insurance.
When the main driver drives any other car, we’ll provide the same cover as ‘If you cause an accident’ above, as long as:
•
They aren’t covered by another insurance policy.
•
They don’t own the other car, and it isn’t hired to them under a hire-purchase or leasing agreement.
•
The car is not a hire, rental or courtesy car, unless we have provided or arranged it.
•
The owner of the car they’re driving gives their permission.
•
The car they’re driving is registered and being driven within the territorial limits or in the Republic of Ireland.
•
You still have your car and it hasn’t been written off.

It doesn't say the other vehicle needs to be insured (presumably if it was I was a named driver as in the case of Mrs Q's car then that's the policy that covers me not my own) When some arsehole rear ended me about 10 years ago and the Insurance company sorted me out a hire car, the guy at Enterprise told me that my policy was covering their car as it were mine.

That's the sort of thing that is meant for emergencies like bringing someone's car home after they've been rushed to hospital not for regular driving around.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This is one reason I use a trusted independent local insurance broker, they write to me about a month before renewal with whatever best offer they have found for me, and send a reminder a couple of weeks later, after that the text messages and phone calls start to come in.

I've never found a better quote online compared to what they have come up with, OK there's a £15 charge for their service, but even including that, I struggle to find cheaper, plus they are there to fight on my behalf if I need to make a claim, at no extra cost.

 

[keybored]

Was everyone else aware of this?

Yes.

 

[keybored]

I believe you can get insurance policies which take effect as soon as you open their proprietary app and it works by the minute or something?

Supposedly this is used by food delivery drivers / riders who can open the app to get the relevant insurance as soon as they’ve taken on a job (or get pulled over)

The vehicle would still need to be continuously insured though, unless they want to keep SORNing/unSORNing it.

 

[Elpenor]

The vehicle would still need to be continuously insured though, unless they want to keep SORNing/unSORNing it.

I think it is for courier car insurance, used for the deliveries, as opposed to the insurance for the vehicle for driving it for non business purposes

 

[Puddy_Tat]

(edit - more or less said what Elpenor said, but took longer to press the 'post' button)

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'll use this thread to highlight something I was unaware of until relatively recently.

If your car insurance covers you to drive another vehicle third party, that vehicle must have valid insurance in someone's name.

Some years ago I drove a car back to my daughter's from an auction, assuming that my insurance covered me, it didn't, as the other car was uninsured. I wasn't stopped, but had I been...

Was everyone else aware of this?

I'm not clear on the driving other people's cars on my own insurance bit. The policy says I can but I don't trust that somehow.

I bought my car from a private seller and insured it the day before, so I didn't have to drive it home with no insurance. If the sale hadn't worked out I could've just cancelled the policy on the 14-day rule.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'm not clear on the driving other people's cars on my own insurance bit. The policy says I can but I don't trust that somehow.

out of curiosity, and since i've just changed cars and had a new insurance certificate, i've had a look.

mine says

The insurer will cover you for damage caused to third parties while driving cars that aren't owned or hired by you or your partner. There must be a valid insurance policy in force for the car you’re driving. This cover doesn’t include damage to the car you’re driving.

so, yes, this would cover things like driving someone else's car if they were taken ill, but would not cover driving a car that's been off the road and not covered by an insurance policy (presume car dealers insure against theft / fire and that sort of thing while it's on their premises, but any road use would probably only be covered while it's running on their trade plates.)

 

[Sasaferrato]

MickiQ​

​

What is driving other cars (DOC) insurance?​

If you have driving other cars cover, you can drive another car without being a named driver on it or having to buy temporary cover. However, the car has to be covered by an existing policy and you have to have permission to use it.

Am I insured to drive someone else's car? - Uswitch

Before you borrow a friend's of relative's car, do you know whether you're insured? Even if you have your own comprehensive car insurance policy, you may not be covered to drive another vehicle.

www.uswitch.com

 

[MickiQ]

MickiQ​

​

What is driving other cars (DOC) insurance?​

If you have driving other cars cover, you can drive another car without being a named driver on it or having to buy temporary cover. However, the car has to be covered by an existing policy and you have to have permission to use it.

Am I insured to drive someone else's car? - Uswitch

Before you borrow a friend's of relative's car, do you know whether you're insured? Even if you have your own comprehensive car insurance policy, you may not be covered to drive another vehicle.

www.uswitch.com

Oh I believe you but I wonder if it might be an insurance company specific thing rather than a general thing. As I posted above mine (Direct Line) does not say that the car I would be driving has to also have an insurance.

Mrs Q (LV) is different again hers says :-

Driving other cars
If your certificate of motor insurance says so, we’ll insure the policyholder and/or the NCD
holder to drive a private car or van in the UK, that you don’t own, is not registered to you
and not hired to you under a hire purchase or rental/leasing agreement as long as:
you have the owner’s permission to drive the car or van;
you have the required licence to drive the car or van;
the car or van is registered and normally kept in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle
of Man or the Channel Islands;
it’s not a van which has been adapted to carry passengers;
the car or van doesn’t exceed 3.5 tonnes GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight);
the car or van hasn’t been seized or confiscated by or on behalf of any government or
public authority;
you’re not covered by any other insurance to drive it; and
you still have your car, it hasn’t been stolen and it hasn’t been damaged to an extent
that it’s a total loss.

But the link you've posted (presumably by someone who knows more than me or thee) does in fact have the word must in bold to drive home the point you're making Doubtless best not to drive a car where you're not on the policy. Mrs Q and I are both named drivers on each others cars with Son Q also being a named driver on mine (though now he's moved out I think I will take him off in Feb when it comes up for renewal) and Youngest Q as a named driver on her Mum's

 

[Fez909]

OK, so I'm trying to sort out a new policy so we can get our car back from the impound, but I have a dilemma. They're asking if either of us have any driving convictions or points, and the details. Technically, neither of us do right now. But we will in a few days. It'll likely be 6 points and £300, but I don't know this.

If I put the no points scenario in MoneySupermarket I get lots of quotes, at OK prices. £500 is the cheapest.

If I put the points in, I get loads of insurers I've never heard of before, and the cheapest is £800.

If I tell the truth, I will get the cheap policy, but then will have to do an adjustment in a few days and who knows what that will cost then. They could charge basically anything?

If I preempt the points, then it might be technically wrong, but I feel like it would be justifiable?

Seems like a shit sandwich either way.

 

[MickiQ]

Never rely on the word 'Technically' to keep you out of trouble. Fess up and tell the truth. perhaps you could try going and visiting a broker and get some specialist advice rather than trying to guess from what a web search tells you?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

OK, so I'm trying to sort out a new policy so we can get our car back from the impound, but I have a dilemma. They're asking if either of us have any driving convictions or points, and the details. Technically, neither of us do right now. But we will in a few days. It'll likely be 6 points and £300, but I don't know this.

If I put the no points scenario in MoneySupermarket I get lots of quotes, at OK prices. £500 is the cheapest.

If I put the points in, I get loads of insurers I've never heard of before, and the cheapest is £800.

If I tell the truth, I will get the cheap policy, but then will have to do an adjustment in a few days and who knows what that will cost then. They could charge basically anything?

If I preempt the points, then it might be technically wrong, but I feel like it would be justifiable?

Seems like a shit sandwich either way.

Yes, I think you would need to tell them if, after taking the insurance, one of the named drivers got a driving conviction / points, and they would probably charge an admin fee as well as whacking the premium up.

What's the question they are actually asking? Think last time I renewed, they asked whether I had any points, or any prosecution pending.

one thought - can you still get the sort of insurance where you would be named driver, but it also covers any licensed driver aged over 25 (or something like that) rather than additional named drivers? or do you still have to declare if they have points?

although depends who uses the car more - they can get difficult about 'fronting' where (for example) parent insures car in their name but it's mostly 18 year old child who drives it.

may be worth seeing if there's a local insurance broker - the online things tend to go after the most low risk, mainstream policies. anything a bit out of the ordinary (younger drivers, unusual cars, drivers with points) you can sometimes do better going to a broker.

 

[Fez909]

Yes, I think you would need to tell them if, after taking the insurance, one of the named drivers got a driving conviction / points, and they would probably charge an admin fee as well as whacking the premium up.

What's the question they are actually asking? Think last time I renewed, they asked whether I had any points, or any prosecution pending.

one thought - can you still get the sort of insurance where you would be named driver, but it also covers any licensed driver aged over 25 (or something like that) rather than additional named drivers? or do you still have to declare if they have points?

although depends who uses the car more - they can get difficult about 'fronting' where (for example) parent insures car in their name but it's mostly 18 year old child who drives it.

may be worth seeing if there's a local insurance broker - the online things tend to go after the most low risk, mainstream policies. anything a bit out of the ordinary (younger drivers, unusual cars, drivers with points) you can sometimes do better going to a broker.

It would be fronting, I think. She drives it way more than me.

I will go with a broker next time, but I don't have time to do that now. I need insurance today, to pick up the car on Monday.

Never rely on the word 'Technically' to keep you out of trouble. Fess up and tell the truth. perhaps you could try going and visiting a broker and get some specialist advice rather than trying to guess from what a web search tells you?

when you say fess up and tell the truth, that's what I want to do, but the question is "Do you have any points or convictions?" and the answer right now is no.

 

[keybored]

OK, so I'm trying to sort out a new policy so we can get our car back from the impound, but I have a dilemma. They're asking if either of us have any driving convictions or points, and the details. Technically, neither of us do right now. But we will in a few days. It'll likely be 6 points and £300, but I don't know this.

If I put the no points scenario in MoneySupermarket I get lots of quotes, at OK prices. £500 is the cheapest.

If I put the points in, I get loads of insurers I've never heard of before, and the cheapest is £800.

If I tell the truth, I will get the cheap policy, but then will have to do an adjustment in a few days and who knows what that will cost then. They could charge basically anything?

If I preempt the points, then it might be technically wrong, but I feel like it would be justifiable?

Seems like a shit sandwich either way.

There was another thread about this exact thing and the consensus seemed to be that you aren't obliged to declare points midway through a policy.

Not telling the insurance company about points?

So I've managed to pick up 3 points for speeding. It's been a lot of years, since the last time, actually thought I'd be offered a course, but must have been just over the threshold or something. Anyway my understanding was that you had to tell the insurance company when it happened, but I've...

www.urban75.net

As with most types of insurance the premium is based on the risk you present at the time of the inception of the policy. They'd be on very dodgy legal ground if they tried to argue that your insurance was invalid after you'd paid for it, despite picking-up a few points during the insured period. I've always told insurers at renewal and have renewed with the existing company several times without eyebrows being raised when I've mentioned the points.

Ask your insurers and lets us know but I'd be extremely surprised if I'm wrong.

 

[krtek a houby]

With their flagrant disregard for the law, Fez909 and his gf, earlier
View attachment 404468

The driver looks familiar...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If you don’t have the points yet then you don’t have the points.

Also call yourself 909 of the Family Fez and they can’t fucking touch you.

 

[A380]

If you don’t have the points yet then you don’t have the points.

Also call yourself 909 of the Family Fez and they can’t fucking touch you.

Yeah, and if the copper who stoped her wasn’t wearing his hat she is scott free…

 

[hash tag]

This is one reason I use a trusted independent local insurance broker, they write to me about a month before renewal with whatever best offer they have found for me, and send a reminder a couple of weeks later, after that the text messages and phone calls start to come in.

I've never found a better quote online compared to what they have come up with, OK there's a £15 charge for their service, but even including that, I struggle to find cheaper, plus they are there to fight on my behalf if I need to make a claim, at no extra cost.

I've never tried but never insured through a broker, even ones recommend by car clubs that offer discounts. Renewals always assume nothing has changed. Last time around, I tweaked my insurance, the job the miles, the values and drivers and managed to get my premium down by £100 from what was quoted to just under £500 PA ( or was it £400 ).

 

[A380]

What happened in the end with this Fez909 ?

 

[Fez909]

What happened in the end with this Fez909 ?

It was an expensive lesson.

She got the 6 points, and the fine - think it was around £500.

Then we had to pay to get special "impound insurance" as Leeds won't let you take a car from a police impound without it. That was £370 for one day.

We also had to pay for the time the car sat in the impound, which cost £296.

Then we had to get our new insurance, which obviously increased in premium by a couple of hundred.

All in, it was well over a grand, and will carry over until the points are spent in...4 years?