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Driving Standards

Winot said:
“I’m a better judge of what’s a safe speed than the so-called experts”. The defence of speeding drivers everywhere.
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The experience and judgement that allows me to drive at 60mph along a straight, 2 mile dual carriageway near me thats miles from anywhere and which some witless mouthbreather has classed as a 40, is the same experience and judgement that tells me that only said witless mouthbreather would consider driving at more than 15 down a suburban street near my children's school despite it happily boasting a 30 limit...
 
T & P said:
There is not such thing as a safe speed, other than 0 mph. Some speeds are safer than others of course, and that is all part of the compromise between safety and practicality that all of us, whether we want to admit it or not, are prepared to accept, unless one is campaigining for a total ban on motor vehicles on urban areas, which is the only truly safe option.

Once we are prepared to accept there has to be a reasonable and adequate compromise between safety and practicality, then we can discuss the issue of what the most adequate speed might be for a given area or road according to conditions and and physical characteristics. It is plainly obvious that 20 mph is an ludicrously slow and completely inappropriate and unfit for purpose speed limit for *certain* roads. That is why blanket 20 mph limits across entire neighbourhoods regardless of which roads or areas are affected are ill-thought bullshit, and why practically 100% of drivers including police patrols ignore such limits on certain roads where the conditions allow for higher speeds without a serious compromise on safety.
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But you don't know what the roads were that were surveyed, there was only 9 sites and they aren't detailed so we've no way of knowing. All we know is that they are 20mph limits. I don't think most local authorities do blanket 20mph limits, certainly none of the West Midlands councils do, I think it's just some in London, so it's somewhere between possible and likely that some, most or all of these sites are not in blanket 20mph boroughs. You can't say these figures don't show a problem because there are some roads you think have been wrongly classed and decide this speeding is on those, at least mauvais had some good points about the majority of speeding being only slightly over and that the average speed was significantly reduced compared to 30mph zones so even though the vast majority of drivers can't obey the limit, they are still moving slower than when it was 30mph limits (with the caveat they may have been slower moving roads before the change).
I posted it only to say that it's clear that only a small portion of drivers are able to follow a simple rule.

kebabking said:
The experience and judgement that allows me to drive at 60mph along a straight, 2 mile dual carriageway near me thats miles from anywhere and which some witless mouthbreather has classed as a 40, is the same experience and judgement that tells me that only said witless mouthbreather would consider driving at more than 15 down a suburban street near my children's school despite it happily boasting a 30 limit...
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Thing is, that's probably been classed as a 40 due to collisions on that stretch. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50 or 60 and there was 2 fatalities in a year (iirc that's the threshold at which councils have to examine a road to see what they can do to reduce risk there) and they reduced it to 40 as a result.
 
20mph in residential areas isn’t about how safely you can drive, or how good modern brakes are or whatever defensive stuff a lot of drivers come out with, but about the impact on others when they fuck up, e.g. kids running into the road. I know it feels frustratingly slow if you’re not used to it, but it’ll seep in eventually.

There are blanket limits in some London boroughs (I’m in one) but they’re the sort of places where there’s no justification for owning a car anyway.
 
Dogsauce said:
20mph in residential areas isn’t about how safely you can drive, or how good modern brakes are or whatever defensive stuff a lot of drivers come out with, but about the impact on others when they fuck up, e.g. kids running into the road. I know it feels frustratingly slow if you’re not used to it, but it’ll seep in eventually.

There are blanket limits in some London boroughs (I’m in one) but they’re the sort of places where there’s no justification for owning a car anyway.
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I certainly don't object to 20 mph on residential side roads, and in fact observe that or an even lower speed even when the limit is set at 30 mph. Most drivers can actually adjust their speed according to conditions and local geography regardless of what the local laws might allow.

But at the same time there are plenty of trunk/ main roads in Lambeth affected by the blanket speed limit where a 20 mph limit is so thoroughly inadequate it's nothing short of a farce. And that in effect can prove counterproductive in the long term as far observance of the Highway Code is concerned.
 
I don't have the slightest problem with 20 limits, but do have a problem with the way it's coordinated some times. There are estate side roads close To battersea power station which are run by wandsworth and are 20mph. You exit these roads on to a main route operated by Lambeth and they become 20mph. It's a crazy set up.
 
T & P said:
I certainly don't object to 20 mph on residential side roads, and in fact observe that or an even lower speed even when the limit is set at 30 mph. Most drivers can actually adjust their speed according to conditions and local geography regardless of what the local laws might allow.

But at the same time there are plenty of trunk/ main roads in Lambeth affected by the blanket speed limit where a 20 mph limit is so thoroughly inadequate it's nothing short of a farce. And that in effect can prove counterproductive in the long term as far observance of the Highway Code is concerned.
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I have heard that the reason for 20mph limits on main roads is to help keep traffic moving; so instead of 30-stop-30-stop-30-stop-30-stop etc, it might go more like 20-10-20-10-20-10-20-10-ok maybe stop now. It's better for emissions to keep traffic moving slowly than stopping and starting, better for the cars' brakes and engines, generally better for drivers' tempers to keep moving (albeit slowly), plus slowly moving traffic rather than fast moving but constantly stopping traffic is said to bring the chances of accidents down.

Unfortunately, from inside our own cars we only see our bit of the picture, not the broad view of Traffic Flow.
 
Interesting case Driver using hands-free kit kills young dad during "in-depth" chat with friend

"The fact that using a phone (hands free) is lawful does not alter the fact it is an actual distraction. The guidelines make that clear."

"A police collision investigator concluded Ayres' driving had caused the crash and said he could not discount the possibility that the lawful use of a hands free phone for such a period had led to a distraction."

PC Godfrey Barlow told the jury use of a hands free phone can provide a distraction and was a "possible" cause of the collision.

"The research shows less time is spent looking at the road," PC Barlow explained.

When asked how the use of hands free phone differed from talking to a passenger PC Barlow said: "The research mentions you visualise the person you are speaking to."

He added: "It is going to lower your situational awareness."
 
Wasn't there a study that said that using a handsfree was about the same distraction as drink driving?
 
Company I used to work for wouldn't allow drivers to use hands-free, pretty sure they started doing this about five years ago, it's well known to increase risks.
 
I’ve always been quite skeptic about how serious an effect having a conversation on a hands-free has on drivers’ attention. I can’t certainly see it being significantly worse than having the same conversation with someone in the car. Surely it depends on the nature of the conversation far more than where the voice of the other person is coming from.
 
If you are speaking to a passenger, under ordinary circumstances, they will have their eyes on the road. Even if they make a slight reaction to something they see, the driver will probably pick up on it.
that said, children, dogs, load music, a good argument can be very distracting/dangerous.
 
hash tag said:
If you are speaking to a passenger, under ordinary circumstances, they will have their eyes on the road. Even if they make a slight reaction to something they see, the driver will probably pick up on it.
that said, children, dogs, load music, a good argument can be very distracting/dangerous.
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Exactly. IIRC some of the most common and worst arguments between couples happen in cars. I can imagine those being as disruptive as as any interaction in a car could be. I’d imagine warring children in the back seat are pretty bad too. In fact both such scenarios have got to be far more distracting/ potentially dangerous than an ordinary conversation over a hands free system.

Point being, if transporting unruly children is not deemed too dangerous a task to be done safely by the average driver, then having a normal conversation over the phone shouldn’t be either.
 
Passengers tend to be watching the road and will usually shut up if the driver is having to do anything tricky, there's generally an awareness of what's going on and conversation adjusts instinctively, whereas a mobile caller doesn't have that awareness.
 
Has anyone commented on the driving test, apparently they now have a move which is causing some controversy, pulling across the road into the part of oncoming traffic and then reversing back to your side before continuing. It sounds a little tricky, if that is what it is, and I am not convinced!
 
The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.
 
Dogsauce said:
The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.
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When I'm on my scooter I very often experience this. Even if I've entered the narrow section first most car drivers will not only enter it too, but fail to reduce their speed at all, expecting me to slow down and pin myself against the parked cars to let them through.
 
Dogsauce said:
The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.
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All the street near me are like this, double parked so the rules about who should give way go out the window. When I'm driving I find people (except cabbies) are very good at letting each other go past based on who can most easily pull over or who gets to the narrow bit first. When I'm on a bike though, this idea of patiently waiting for someone to pass goes out the window and cars just come straight at me whether there's space or not.
 
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