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Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

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ViolentPanda said:
The single greatest driver of innovation is the competition caused by medium and large scale war and conflict.
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Innovation in weapons you mean?

Competition to produce better tech and better science. As far as cooperation in research goes, it works, but how well? In academe perhaps, but it doesn't much happen in proprietary R & D depts.
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Again yes that's the claim but cooperation's much better. Research results are universally shared by people publishing their research papers. Also Chomsky saying that the state normally finances new technologies (cooperation) before opening the profits up to be taken by private companies (competition).

Competition is hugely wasteful by repeating work that's being done elsewhere. It's also stressful for everyone competing. Companies cooperating to form standards cuts down waste for example. Encouraging competition within companies themselves has been promoted as being efficient but it's a sort of thatcherite idea (not that you're saying that).

I'm with Deming on this one. And surely it would be the socialist view?
 
two sheds said:
Innovation in weapons you mean?



Again yes that's the claim but cooperation's much better. Research results are universally shared by people publishing their research papers. Also Chomsky saying that the state normally finances new technologies (cooperation) before opening the profits up to be taken by private companies (competition).

Competition is hugely wasteful by repeating work that's being done elsewhere. It's also stressful for everyone competing. Companies cooperating to form standards cuts down waste for example. Encouraging competition within companies themselves has been promoted as being efficient but it's a sort of thatcherite idea (not that you're saying that).

I'm with Deming on this one. And surely it would be the socialist view?
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There are loads of good examples to illustrate this. The Apollo mission to the Moon is one of the best. Concorde another.

I think I would argue that it is not competition that is the driver here, but merely motivation, which can in some cases be provided by competition but needn't be (some of the most extraordinary things have been done out of religious motivation of one form or another). In the decades to come, the motivation will be the avoidance of catastrophic civilisational collapse. In such a case, cooperation will be the key, not competition. In fact, in many cases, the avoidance of competition will be key.
 
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ViolentPanda said:
The single greatest driver of innovation is the competition caused by medium and large scale war and conflict. Competition to produce better tech and better science. As far as cooperation in research goes, it works, but how well? In academe perhaps, but it doesn't much happen in proprietary R & D depts.
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Windows vs Linux.
 
snadge said:
So fuck, what does that matter, you have fucking children dying in the US due to malnutrition, how does that equate to Putin being a bent bastard.
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So two wrongs make a right now, do they? Or did you forget Putin isn't exactly known for his humanitarianism. *cough* Litvinenko, Poteyev, Perepilichny, Kara-Murza, Moskalenko, Nemtsov, Lesin, Magnitsky, Politkovskaya, Perepilichny *cough*
 
littlebabyjesus said:
There are loads of good examples to illustrate this. The Apollo mission to the Moon is one of the best. Concorde another.

I think I would argue that it is not competition that is the driver here, but merely motivation, which can in some cases be provided by competition but needn't be (some of the most extraordinary things have been done out of religious motivation of one form or another). In the decades to come, the motivation will be the avoidance of catastrophic civilisational collapse. In such a case, cooperation will be the key, not competition. In fact, in many cases, the avoidance of competition will be key.
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And the whole of society - in particular families - is founded on cooperation any competition there I'd have thought is destructive.
 
camouflage said:
Windows vs Linux.
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Indeed, and Windows has only been successful because other companies have cooperated by producing software that runs on it. Similar with PC hardware. It's been that cooperation with universally accepted standards that has driven the computer market and made it successful.
 
two sheds said:
And the whole of society - in particular families - is founded on cooperation any competition there I'd have thought is destructive.
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Yep. You can certainly argue that cooperation within groups is the key to human success, but that this can in many cases come in a wider context of competition with other groups, but that's not always the case, and I think it would be hard to argue that, for instance, the construction of the Great Pyramids was motivated by competition - they were made possible by continuity and widespread cooperation within that continuity.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Yep. You can certainly argue that cooperation within groups is the key to human success, but that this can in many cases come in a wider context of competition with other groups, but that's not always the case, and I think it would be hard to argue that, for instance, the construction of the Great Pyramids was motivated by competition - they were made possible by continuity and widespread cooperation within that continuity.
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It was also during the construction of the pyramids that the earliest recorded strike happened.
 
I don't know if anyone has been reading Rebecca Solnit's social media stuff - she's gone into full overdrive on trying to stop Trump getting into power. On the one hand I find it understandable, as I think he is a different level of racist misogynist rich man to the racist misogynist rich men we are accustomed to seeing run the world - and a more dangerous type in more ways than one. On the other hand there doesn't seem to be much evidence available of his 'treason', and also she is partly upset because she thought Clinton was a good candidate who deserved to win. Which is pretty difficult to sympathise with. It's gone full-on weird though, with people really clutching at straws to try to stop him being elected. The conflicts of interest issue seems the most interesting, but there's no way it will properly kick in until he's actually president and doing stuff.
 
two sheds said:
Indeed, and Windows has only been successful because other companies have cooperated by producing software that runs on it. Similar with PC hardware. It's been that cooperation with universally accepted standards that has driven the computer market and made it successful.
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The dream in the EU is another example, to move beyond the competition of European nation states toward a cooperative block. The problem there being it seems more the co-operation of neoliberal elites than a co-operation of all the interests in those societies, I guess that is still in contention but the elites have the dominant advantage- made more dominant by their co-operation, and leaving some to decide that the only winning move is not to play. In my opinion co-operation is always a superior strategy to competition.
 
camouflage said:
The dream in the EU is another example, to move beyond the competition of European nation states toward a cooperative block. The problem there being it seems more the co-operation of neoliberal elites than a co-operation of all the interests in those societies, I guess that is still in contention but the elites have the dominant advantage- made more dominant by their co-operation, and leaving some to decide that the only winning move is not to play. In my opinion co-operation is always a superior strategy to competition.
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Yep another variation of the rule: co-operation for the rich, competition for the rest of us.
 
Brainaddict said:
I don't know if anyone has been reading Rebecca Solnit's social media stuff - she's gone into full overdrive on trying to stop Trump getting into power. On the one hand I find it understandable, as I think he is a different level of racist misogynist rich man to the racist misogynist rich men we are accustomed to seeing run the world - and a more dangerous type in more ways than one. On the other hand there doesn't seem to be much evidence available of his 'treason', and also she is partly upset because she thought Clinton was a good candidate who deserved to win. Which is pretty difficult to sympathise with. It's gone full-on weird though, with people really clutching at straws to try to stop him being elected. The conflicts of interest issue seems the most interesting, but there's no way it will properly kick in until he's actually president and doing stuff.
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This Russian-hacking stuff is the last hurrah of the old regime and it's neo-con insiders, and they're trying to use the kerfuffle to maintain some sort of control over whatever comes after Jan 20.
 
ah is he - couldn't see anything in that article (not that I'm too familiar with Ukraine for example) to disagree with and I thought his comparisons of Soviet/US societies were enlightening.
 
two sheds said:
ah is he - couldn't see anything in that article (not that I'm too familiar with Ukraine for example) to disagree with and I thought his comparisons of Soviet/US societies were enlightening.
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Just don't ask him about gays in the military anyway. I once pointed out that the Ancient Spartans might disagree with his position there.
 
I'll just leave this here.

15578468_1751988288455461_4004948959399238531_n.png
 
all the added security around Trump Tower has affected foot traffic at Tiffany's. So they are putting Tiffany branded covers over the security barriers :/ Would you like to know more?
 
Don't let China ties slide into 'full conflict mode', Obama urges Trump


Donald Trump appears to have not a clue how to lead a superpower.

That was the conclusion of China’s Global Times newspaper on Monday morning as the country’s media weighed in on the president-elect’s latest social media assaults on Beijing.

“Trump is not behaving as a president who will become master of the White House in a month,” the Communist party controlled newspaper wrote in an editorial. “He bears no sense of how to lead a superpower.”



“This is not a business deal. This is a political relationship between nuclear powers who are already on the path towards conflict in several dimensions,” added Bishop, who publishes the influential Sinocism newsletter.

“This kind of uncertainty, this kind of petulance, this kind of random tweeting … is not a grand strategy that is going to push the Chinese on to their heels so they are going to make concessions. This is juvenile, immature, inexperienced behaviour that has the potential to lead to many problems in the US-China relationship, some of which could have some pretty serious and damaging ramifications.”
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Trump has no idea how to run a superpower, say Chinese media
 
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