butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Hilary Clintons own behavior is what will be targeted - not being Bill Clinton's wife.
Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!
- Thread starter weltweit
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Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Let's hope so. I'm not claiming for a moment that she's anything other than flawed but she should absolutely be judged on her own merits.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Blackening the name of rape victims - that sort of stuff. That's her own merit.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Here's hoping the Democrats haven't pulled the trigger too soon.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
Overall, fewer than four-in-10 voters -- 39 percent -- think Trump should end his presidential campaign, while only slightly more voters, 45 percent, think he should not drop out.
But voters are largely viewing Trump's comments through their own partisan lens: 70 percent of Democrats say Trump should end his campaign, but just 12 percent of Republicans -- and 13 percent of female Republicans -- agree.
Exclusive poll: GOP voters want the party to stand by Trump
But voters are largely viewing Trump's comments through their own partisan lens: 70 percent of Democrats say Trump should end his campaign, but just 12 percent of Republicans -- and 13 percent of female Republicans -- agree.
Exclusive poll: GOP voters want the party to stand by Trump
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I'm mildly surprised by that Republican figure, simply because I thought a large portion of them already hated him for various reasons (the same reasons everyone else does, what he's doing to their party, etc).
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Sexual talk amongst men absent the presence of women isn't an uncommon thing - moreso when they're young. But even when men are talking in groups, there are some who are total pigs about it.
Trump's a pig.
And he was 60 years old when that tape was made. He should have outgrown that kind of bullshit, long before that.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There's two horrible assumption in thus post 1) this is how men naturally ("isn't uncommon") talk and 2) they grow out of it.
1) is the key though - it's just not true. This behaviour, this understanding is not normal and will get you a punch in the face and a labeling as a sex case.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
To argue that this is how men really talk when they're allowed to is a monstrosity and to actually argue on the same side as his defenders.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think you missed a stage in jc3's post - the 'there are some who are total pigs about it' bit.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I'm not sure I would agree that "isn't uncommon" means "naturally". Just that it's more prevalent than some might think.
Racism "isn't uncommon" - doesn't mean it's right or natural.
Opera Buffa
griddling
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Schwarzenegger won't vote for Trump.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: 'I will not vote for the Republican candidate for president'
Arnold Schwarzenegger: 'I will not vote for the Republican candidate for president'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Stage? The only stages i saw was between callow youth and sage age. Like naturally. Young men are like this but grow into not doing it - but he did it at he wrong age. And Trump has broken the timeline. It's not something i recognise as reflecting reality.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
Schwarzenegger would have walked this election...shame about the "birth" thing though...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
In this formulation there was progression from young male behavior like trump did that follows into mature behaviour where it's then rejected - a natural progression. And so being natural it is also common.
bimble
floofy
This boys will be boys thing is clearly rubbish, as evidenced by there being no shortage of what we used to call dirty old men.
But what was common / regarded as 'normal' macho behaviour in the 60s and 70s (when Trump was a young man) has clearly now become unacceptable and indefensible for the most part in public discourse. That's got to be a good thing. It's not about men growing up its about a lot of work that's gone in to making this sort of 'banter' no longer ok.
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Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
'Sex talk amongst young men', is not the same thing as 'sex talk the way Trump does it'.
Seems to me that when people go through puberty, a new and fundamental element of life begins to enter their lives. As they become aware of sexuality, it stands to reason that they are interested in it; even fascinated by this new thing.
And so - they talk about it. Adolescent boys in groups talk about it. I expect that adolescent girls do as well.
But for various reasons, some adolescents and young men come to revel in talking about it in a smarmy, gross way. Some of them. Some of them continue on like that, or even get worse as time goes by.
They turn into piggish men, when it comes to talking about, and dealing with women.
As time passes, and the sexual aspect of life becomes less of a novelty, it's arguable that a percentage of men lose interest in the immature bragging and obsession that may have occurred when they were adolescent.
But not all of them. Some percentage of men develop a piggish outlook about sex and women when they are young; and they continue to be pigs, as they go through life.
Donald Trump is one of those pigs.
Seems to me that when people go through puberty, a new and fundamental element of life begins to enter their lives. As they become aware of sexuality, it stands to reason that they are interested in it; even fascinated by this new thing.
And so - they talk about it. Adolescent boys in groups talk about it. I expect that adolescent girls do as well.
But for various reasons, some adolescents and young men come to revel in talking about it in a smarmy, gross way. Some of them. Some of them continue on like that, or even get worse as time goes by.
They turn into piggish men, when it comes to talking about, and dealing with women.
As time passes, and the sexual aspect of life becomes less of a novelty, it's arguable that a percentage of men lose interest in the immature bragging and obsession that may have occurred when they were adolescent.
But not all of them. Some percentage of men develop a piggish outlook about sex and women when they are young; and they continue to be pigs, as they go through life.
Donald Trump is one of those pigs.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's grossly unfair to compare Donald Trump to a pig.
On the pig.
On the pig.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
He wasn't bragging about what he would like to do - he was bragging about what he's actually done. I have heard men talk like this on occasion - and in every case the person has been someone i know - or strongly suspect - to be a rapist and/or child abuser. Conflating it with teenager bragging normalises it. I would say that Trump is almost certainly a serial perpetrator of sexual violence.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Thinking back to the kind of things I used to hear, it was pretty horrible objectivising stuff, but it didn't include anything to do with groping women and boasting to getting away with groping women. That part is something else, and it is perhaps not surprising that I used not to hear it as none of the boys/men that I heard from were in a position of power that would allow them to get away with such a thing.
It does have echoes of Jimmy Savile, I must say. His daughter comments seem to fit the same pattern, he doesn't quite know what others might consider acceptable, and gets it wrong sometimes, but nobody pulls him up on it, so he carries on, and probably never realises he's got it wrong.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
If you believe what you just said is reality I suggest you spend too much time mixing on this board and maybe not in the reality that takes place outside this board.
"Isn't uncommon" does not equate to "naturally". There can be many reasons for 'not uncommon' behaviour, not least socialisation and peer pressure. Sweet FA to do with 'natural'.
If everyone spoke like Trump at 60 then I'd hope they'd all be punched in the face. They aren't. To believe there's some evolutionary process going on that makes men grow out of such misogynistic behaviour is both wrong and ignorant of the economic determinism that makes rich pricks like Trump think they can behave the way they do. Same probably goes for Bill Clinton, he just tried to be a touch more clever about thinking he could get away with it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You and your mates sound great.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Oh fuck off with your 'your mates' sarcasm. You're not worth my time. Mate.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I reckon you might need to read the last para - the one where you really try - of your post above and the compare it to what i posted.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I was listening to Katie Hopkins in the car earlier (not good for the blood pressure) and was astonished at the number of women calling in to support Trump. Older women seemed to think it was "just how men talk when they're together", and I'm shouting NO! WE DON'T!
Of course there's sometimes sexual discussion, same as in groups of women, but I can categorically state that I've never been party to a "lads conversation" where the topic was sexually assaulting women and "grabbing pussies"
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No, me neither. That's a power thing. Sexual predator with power, and with so much power that he's confident enough not to even keep quiet about it. Bloke who was laughing along with Trump in that tape is also a cunt. Hope he feels like a right shit now.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The thing is it would have been kept quiet if he hadn't run for office.
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