Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

Lindsay Anderson actually

Now you're just trying to tease me. She's that model who did the beer adverts.

 

[Orang Utan]

Now you're just trying to tease me. She's that model who did the beer adverts.

Ah, maybe, didn’t she also write that poem in which she rued her lax dental hygiene regime?

 

[tim]

Lindsay Anderson actually. Also created Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlett

You're thinking of Dreamland or Dreaming of Thinkland.

 

[Wilf]

Thatcher also had a rottweiler

And a semi house trained ferret.

 

[Derek S-H]

I totally agree with you right up there the point where you suggest that the political parties of the right are more enmeshed in reproducing that ideological state of affairs than the so-called parties of the left. The Democrats and the Labour Party have both been responsible for making capitalism normative just as much as the Republicans or the Conservatives. And Harris is no better in that regard at least than Trump is. The split between them is symbolic not material — her party believes in protecting minority interests, whereas Trump does not. But they’re both committed capitalists.

You are probably right and I am just naive to believe that there is an ideological divide between Left and Right.

I mean, I don't dispute that the Left care about wealth, but I'd like to think they interested in redistributing it more fairly and equitably. Whereas the Right know the price of everything but the value of nothing, as the saying goes.

No, I’m not. I was pointing out two things: first that “politics” is wider than “party politics” or “electoral politics”; and secondly that a community doing something direct and practical for itself is more empowering than petitioning someone else to do it for you.

But thanks for your musings, they were interesting.

Ah, I see.

But, to me, politics is life. It's not something that only exists every 4 years when you put your X in a box, then just forget about it for another 4 years.

I mean, how politically aware and engaged is someone under those circumstances? Aren't they just prime fodder for conmen who tell them that £350 million a week would be available to the NHS if we leave our largest trading partner? Or that building a wall between your country and Mexico means all your problems will be solved? Or that Climate Change isn't real? Or that you can treat Covid with bleach?

 

[smokedout]

I mean, how politically aware and engaged is someone under those circumstances? Aren't they just prime fodder for conmen who tell them that £350 million a week would be available to the NHS if we leave our largest trading partner?

Do you really think people voted Brexit because of some shit on the side of a bus?

Or was it more to do with the direct result of politics they engage with in their lives? In some cases that was doubtless immigration, and in some cases it was doubtless motivated by racism but that was far from the only reason. Some wanted to say fuck you to an establishment that had long abandoned them, some saw the EU as remote, undemocratic and unaccountable, some had economic motivations, some opposed what they saw as EU enforced regulations, some were just arsey nationalists.

But they were all engaging in politics. Just because you might pay attention to the Westminster sideshow doesn't mean you are doing politics and everyone else is ignorant.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Do you really think people voted Brexit because of some shit on the side of a bus?

Or was it more to do with the direct result of politics they engage with in their lives? In some cases that was doubtless immigration, and in some cases it was doubtless motivated by racism but that was far from the only reason. Some wanted to say fuck you to an establishment that had long abandoned them, some saw the EU as remote, undemocratic and unaccountable, some had economic motivations, some opposed what they saw as EU enforced regulations, some were just arsey nationalists.

But they were all engaging in politics. Just because you might pay attention to the Westminster sideshow doesn't mean you are doing politics and everyone else is ignorant.

Yes and no. Some bought into the NHS money thing, among other ideas. My parents, for example.

Shit propaganda and lies do have an effect. The pithy three-worders 'Take Back Control' and 'Get Brexit Done' from Cummings/Johnson. Those had an effect.

Both things can be true at the same time. In fact, both were probably necessary for Brexit to happen. The fact that a bunch of people wanted to say fuck you to an establishment that had just given us six years of austerity and was promising more of the same and the fact that the slick slogans and lies of the pro-Brexit people resonated within that environment.

 

[Wilf]

I mean, how politically aware and engaged is someone under those circumstances? Aren't they just prime fodder for conmen who tell them that £350 million a week would be available to the NHS if we leave our largest trading partner? Or that building a wall between your country and Mexico means all your problems will be solved? Or that Climate Change isn't real? Or that you can treat Covid with bleach?

I'm not a fan of analysis that sees people as 'fodder', potential or actual. If they are fodder for the right, doesn't that suggest they are equally the gullible prey of the centre left when they vote Dem or Labour?

Why not start with the premise that working class people and for that matter voters are the same as yourself? That's surely the only way to even begin, even think about beginning, to build something viable?

 

[Humberto]

Ooh I ruddy hate him. Other's? Not as much as me!

 

[Humberto]

Dribbles over sellotape

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm not a fan of analysis that sees people as 'fodder', potential or actual. If they are fodder for the right, doesn't that suggest they are equally the gullible prey of the centre left when they vote Dem or Labour?

Why not start with the premise that working class people and for that matter voters are the same as yourself? That's surely the only way to even begin, even think about beginning, to build something viable?

This.
And of course we could reflect that our own views and opinions might themselves be shaped by society, and have their own underlying assumptions - that what we might consider 'facts' are not actually that.

 

[HeAthen]

Imagine if I wrote a post that took 8 minutes to read and expected people to take it all in.

I'd scroll past and not whinge like a petulant twat, just like I do with videos I don't want to watch.

 

[kabbes]

I'd scroll past and not whinge like a petulant twat, just like I do with videos I don't want to watch.

And then have somebody tell you that you’re some kind of psycho because, having not watched the video, you didn’t know what was in its content?

 

[HeAthen]

And then have somebody tell you that you’re some kind of psycho because, having not watched the video, you didn’t know what was in its content?

But I wouldn't have been a petulant whinging twat that had moaned and moaned about videos being posted would I? Why should they be afforded anything other than the response they got?

 

[kabbes]

But I wouldn't have been a petulant whinging twat that had moaned and moaned about videos being posted would I? Why should they be afforded anything other than the response they got?

Sweet FA responded with a laugh to words he thought were funny. Then breadandcircuse got all hurt because she took it for granted that Sweet FA had watched the video. Apparently, then, it is insufficient to simply ignore the video.

 

[Skinny Ethel]

Oh fuck off fuddy duddy.

 

[HeAthen]

Sweet FA responded with a laugh to words he thought were funny. Then breadandcircuse got all hurt because she took it for granted that Sweet FA had watched the video. Apparently, then, it is insufficient to simply ignore the video.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were referring to someone elses whinge. With the Sweet FA one, maybe it was misconstrued but you can hardly blame Breads for being touchy after the unmitigated bullying shit some people have aimed their way.

 

[Santino]

Are there other kinds of duddy?

 

[Skinny Ethel]

Ken duds duddy men.

 

[HeAthen]

Are there other kinds of duddy?

Milk Duddy's (fuck knows what the are actually are; some sort of American sweet I think)

 

[Derek S-H]

Do you really think people voted Brexit because of some shit on the side of a bus?

Or was it more to do with the direct result of politics they engage with in their lives? In some cases that was doubtless immigration, and in some cases it was doubtless motivated by racism but that was far from the only reason. Some wanted to say fuck you to an establishment that had long abandoned them, some saw the EU as remote, undemocratic and unaccountable, some had economic motivations, some opposed what they saw as EU enforced regulations, some were just arsey nationalists.

But they were all engaging in politics. Just because you might pay attention to the Westminster sideshow doesn't mean you are doing politics and everyone else is ignorant.

Oh, really?

The number one search on Google the day after the Referendum result was, "What is the EU?"

What does that suggest to you?

I'm not a fan of analysis that sees people as 'fodder', potential or actual. If they are fodder for the right, doesn't that suggest they are equally the gullible prey of the centre left when they vote Dem or Labour?

Why not start with the premise that working class people and for that matter voters are the same as yourself? That's surely the only way to even begin, even think about beginning, to build something viable?

That's lovely and everything, but it doesn't reflect real life.

To deny hierarchies and how powerful people can manipulate you through the dissemination of lies is an undeniable truth. How they shape reality by blaming, othering and getting you to punch down rather than look up so they can divide and rule was transparently exposed by the last administration, and Trump and his cabal of lunatics are doing exactly the same thing.

If you are fully engaged and have critical thinking skills, you should be able to realise this, it is simply evident.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Suggesting posters like Wilf and smokedout somehow lack engagement or critical thinking skills is quite a take tbh.

 

[Santino]

The number one search on Google the day after the Referendum result was, "What is the EU?"

What does that suggest to you?

I'd need a lot more information to make any inferences. How many searches does it take to push a query up to number one? How frequently was that search made on other days?

 

[Santino]

Suggesting posters like Wilf and smokedout somehow lack engagement or critical thinking skills is quite a take tbh.

Conversely, I'd say that all of us lack critical thinking skills on certain issues.

 

[emanymton]

The number one search on Google the day after the Referendum result was, "What is the EU?"

In the UK or worldwide?

 

[klang]

The number one search on Google the day after the Referendum result was, "What is the EU?"

What does that suggest to you?

It suggests that if people would have known more about the EU we would have left a lot earlier.

 

[teuchter]

The number one search on Google the day after the Referendum result was, "What is the EU?"

No it wasn't.

It was the number two search within the category of searches related to the EU.

EU referendum

See how EU referendum is trending on Google right now.

trends.google.com

And we aren't told anything about what proportion of the total number EU-themed questions it represented. Maybe it was 1% or maybe it was 49%. Do you know, or are you happy just to repeat a largely context free "fact" widely reported in the media at the time?

 

[two sheds]

sorry to drag the thread off topic but

Trump Sure Seems Pissed at Elon Musk Over the Spending Bill

Donald Trump isn’t taking the “President Musk” rhetoric well at all.

newrepublic.com

“As soon as President Trump released his official stance on the CR, Republicans on Capitol Hill echoed his point of view. President Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. Full stop,” said Trump spokesperson Karoline Leavitt, as reported by Business Insider’s Bryan Metzger.

I wonder how President Musk will take to that

 

[moochedit]

I'd need a lot more information to make any inferences. How many searches does it take to push a query up to number one? How frequently was that search made on other days?

Have many of the searchers were under 18/in other countries/didn't vote in the referendum?

 

[brogdale]

From the Guardian report of "President Musk's" failure to get House Republicans to pass his pared-down Federal spending bill:



The crux of the neoliberal consolidator state; there's always (borrowed) money available for buying votes but never for public goods.