Doctor Who 2023

[danny la rouge]

Kate Lethbridge?

The Meep mentions a character called The Boss. It’s going to be a Whole Thing.

 

[kittyP]

The Meep mentions a character called The Boss. It’s going to be a Whole Thing.

Oh ok.
I wasn't sure if I'd just missed something and it was one of the main characters from that episode that picked it up, or it was deliberately mysterious.

 

[Santino]

I hope The One Who Waits is Matt Smith trapped in the Pandorica on the outside of the universe.

 

[danny la rouge]

deliberately mysterious.

That.

 

[krtek a houby]

It might be good to have a science fiction writer writing Dr Who, then we would not have such nonsense.

Oh goodness, no.

That would spoil the show.

 

[scifisam]

I enjoyed that as much as the other eps - nitpicking about some bits, like I wish they hadn't had the Toymaker do bad fake Deutschlisch for so long, because I do get that it was intentional, but it went on too long and became annoying - but loving the story and the experience overall.

Ncuti looks pretty good as the next Doctor. Genuinely different vibe to the others, and even though he wasn't on screen long he managed to be both sweetly camp and believable as someone who who could be utterly ruthless and in command.

I hope they do go somewhere with the "mavity" alternate universe hint. Even though it really is not the way language works. And it doesn't matter that it's a kids' show, because it's still stupid, and it doesn't matter that it's scifi because scifi doesn't mean "no normal world rules apply at all ever." If it was an alternate universe that could also explain why Newton was a cheery chap. (I don't care that the actor was black, and think it was pretty obvious that that wasn't why Kabbes disliked him). In some ways time travel creates alternate universes all the time, but they don't usually acknowledge that.

 

[Wilf]

I enjoyed that as much as the other eps - nitpicking about some bits, like I wish they hadn't had the Toymaker do bad fake Deutschlisch for so long, because I do get that it was intentional, but it went on too long and became annoying - but loving the story and the experience overall.

Ncuti looks pretty good as the next Doctor. Genuinely different vibe to the others, and even though he wasn't on screen long he managed to be both sweetly camp and believable as someone who who could be utterly ruthless and in command.

I hope they do go somewhere with the "mavity" alternate universe hint. Even though it really is not the way language works. And it doesn't matter that it's a kids' show, because it's still stupid, and it doesn't matter that it's scifi because scifi doesn't mean "no normal world rules apply at all ever." If it was an alternate universe that could also explain why Newton was a cheery chap. (I don't care that the actor was black, and think it was pretty obvious that that wasn't why Kabbes disliked him). In some ways time travel creates alternate universes all the time, but they don't usually acknowledge that.

I also thought it was odd to play Newton as uber cheery, when he was the direct opposite. It was so far off beam that it might have been deliberate. We later find out how Sir Isaac turned into the Grinch.

 

[scifisam]

I also thought it was odd to play Newton as uber cheery, when he was the direct opposite. It was so far off beam that it might have been deliberate. We later find out how Sir Isaac turned into the Grinch.

Maybe his discovery of gravity mavity just weighed him down over time.

 

[PTK]

Maybe his discovery of gravity mavity just weighed him down over time.

Good one.
However. . . it was Galileo who discovered gravity.

 

[scifisam]

Good one.
However. . . it was Galileo who discovered gravity.

That's a contentious point in the real world, but in Dr Who world it's not true at all.

 

[PTK]

That's a contentious point in the real world, but in Dr Who world it's not true at all.

In Dr Who it would probably be a Time Lord who discovered gravity.

Mind you, gravity in Dr Who is more limited than in the real world.

 

[kabbes]

The show is at its weakest when it attempts too-rapid, glib explanations for its underlying schemes and tries to provide its characters with 30-second revelatory inspirations for unravelling them. Case in point -- that absolute nonsense about Donna discovering that the brainwave spikes are an arpeggio. Because, clearly, a sequence of spikes that runs at a ratio of 1, 5/4, 3/2, 2 is just unique to music and not at all a sequence that appears in nature all the time*. And, apparently, its not just any arpeggio, but one in C major. Obviously, these brainwave spikes come with a handy label telling you how to convert their starting amplitude to a frequency of 256Hz.

Doctor Who is not alone in this, obviously. Most science fiction shows fall into this trap, normally with physics or chemistry. Writers seem to be happy to assume that nobody watching the show will have any knowledge about any subject beyond the most basic level, and thus it doesn't matter how much self-contradictory nonsense or downright errors you have characters blurt out. Who cares, right? Only the nerds that actually know things about that thing, and fuck those guys.

Anyway, I liked Neil Patrick Harris and Ncuti Gatwa. I liked the little chats that people had. There was enough in there to enjoy so long as I completely ignored the nonsense plot and running around.

*sidenote: the spikes would have to have been in this series of ratios (5/3, 3/2, 2) to form the arpeggio. But to present the arpeggio on a musical stave, the positioning of the notes must have become converted to a linear approximation of these ratios. So the events shown (Donna tracing the spikes onto paper and then making musical notation) wouldn’t even have worked in its own terms. But this relatively subtle objection pales into insignificance compared with the main one.

 

[Santino]

Good one.
However. . . it was Galileo who discovered gravity.

This is not true. Lots of thinkers, from the ancient world on, had ideas about gravity, some of which turned out to be more accurate than others. Galileo is no more distinguished than many of these people on the subject. But Newton was the first to conceive of it as a universal force that exists between every single object in the universe, and describe the interaction mathematically.

 

[CNT36]

Fucking catch.

 

[CNT36]

Also no need for two Tardises. Just drop it back when you're done lad.

 

[danny la rouge]

The show is at its weakest when it attempts too-rapid, glib explanations for its underlying schemes and tries to provide its characters with 30-second revelatory inspirations for unravelling them. Case in point -- that absolute nonsense about Donna discovering that the brainwave spikes are an arpeggio. Because, clearly, a sequence of spikes that runs at a ratio of 1, 5/4, 3/2, 2 is just unique to music and not at all a sequence that appears in nature all the time*. And, apparently, its not just any arpeggio, but one in C major. Obviously, these brainwave spikes come with a handy label telling you how to convert their starting amplitude to a frequency of 256Hz.

Doctor Who is not alone in this, obviously. Most science fiction shows fall into this trap, normally with physics or chemistry. Writers seem to be happy to assume that nobody watching the show will have any knowledge about any subject beyond the most basic level, and thus it doesn't matter how much self-contradictory nonsense or downright errors you have characters blurt out. Who cares, right? Only the nerds that actually know things about that thing, and fuck those guys.

Anyway, I liked Neil Patrick Harris and Ncuti Gatwa. I liked the little chats that people had. There was enough in there to enjoy so long as I completely ignored the nonsense plot and running around.

*sidenote: the spikes would have to have been in this series of ratios (5/3, 3/2, 2) to form the arpeggio. But to present the arpeggio on a musical stave, the positioning of the notes must have become converted to a linear approximation of these ratios. So the events shown (Donna tracing the spikes onto paper and then making musical notation) wouldn’t even have worked in its own terms. But this relatively subtle objection pales into insignificance compared with the main one.

The science and music theory were utter nonsense. None of it made any sense. There was no way for Donna to know where in the stave the arpeggio started merely from the shape of the wave. There is also no causal connection there at all. Brain wave spikes do not draw a diagram of the score of the music a listener is hearing.

One thing about it that rang true, though, was that arpeggios do often make people absolutely certain that they are right. I’ve had many an unresolvable argument with band members about arpeggios. I had one only last night with the other guitarist in my band.

However, from reversing the polarity of the neutron flow to lining up planets in order to make a weapon, I’m well aware that the “explanations” of how things work in Doctor Who have never, ever made actual sense, and nor do I expect them to.

 

[krtek a houby]

Also no need for two Tardises. Just drop it back when you're done lad.

Quite a few TARDIS in The Five Doctors, iirc. Felt it was a nod to the closing scene of that classic.

 

[kabbes]

One thing about it that rang true, though, was that arpeggios do often make people absolutely certain that they are right. I’ve had many an unresolvable argument with band members about arpeggios. I had one only last night with the other guitarist in my band.

I’m curious about this! What was the unresolvable argument you had last night?

 

[danny la rouge]

I’m curious about this! What was the unresolvable argument you had last night?

Ha ha ha! He thinks in modes, so if I want to do something that isn’t strictly modal it upsets him. We have a song that he thinks of as moving from D mixolydian to D Lydian. I play a riff that stays around the D dominant seventh arpeggio right through those passages and so there’s moments when he’s playing a major seven when I’m playing a flat seven and he is alarmed by the clash. I pointed out to him that he isn’t alarmed by the clash between his sharp four and my perfect fifth during the Lydian passages, but that didn’t wash. That’s fine. It’s the two sevens clash (reggae fans) that he objects to.

What further annoys him is our chromatic loving bass player who likes to chip in “there’s no such thing as a wrong note, only a wrong rhythm” (by which he means don’t play chromatic notes on the down beats).

This debate went on for ages until the drummer suggested we play another song.

 

[danny la rouge]

Sorry if you’re a non muso.

 

[CNT36]

Danny last night.

 

[danny la rouge]

Danny last night.

Exactly!

 

[kabbes]

Ha ha ha! He thinks in modes, so if I want to do something that isn’t strictly modal it upsets him. We have a song that he thinks of as moving from D mixolydian to D Lydian. I play a riff that stays around the D dominant seventh arpeggio right through those passages and so there’s moments when he’s playing a major seven when I’m playing a flat seven and he is alarmed by the clash. I pointed out to him that he isn’t alarmed by the clash between his sharp four and my perfect fifth during the Lydian passages, but that didn’t wash. That’s fine. It’s the two sevens clash (reggae fans) that he objects to.

What further annoys him is our chromatic loving bass player who likes to chip in “there’s no such thing as a wrong note, only a wrong rhythm” (by which he means don’t play chromatic notes on the down beats).

This debate went on for ages until the drummer suggested we play another song.

Ooh, I think I might be with your band mate on that one. Not all diminished second clashes are alike. But mostly I’m intrigued by the fact that you have a drummer that seeks to move on from problems rather than just hit them harder…

 

[danny la rouge]

Ooh, I think I might be with your band mate on that one. Not all diminished second clashes are alike. But mostly I’m intrigued by the fact that you have a drummer that seeks to move on from problems rather than just hit them harder…

It’s kind of my fault. The passage is actually just in D major, but I created the feeling of a mode shift by playing a thing that moves from a dominant ninth to a major triad. But that’s the refrain. So when he gets a solo over that passage, I don’t play my refrain bit, I revert to what I’m doing during the verse to give him the space. He has no need to insert modes over it for his solo, but because I’ve created the feeling of a modal shift earlier he’s left with that impression, although at the point he’s playing it isn’t actually there.

 

[danny la rouge]

And again, non musicians, I’m really, really sorry.

 

[Wilf]

It’s kind of my fault. The passage is actually just in D major, but I created the feeling of a mode shift by playing a thing that moves from a dominant ninth to a major triad. But that’s the refrain. So when he gets a solo over that passage, I don’t play my refrain bit, I revert to what I’m doing during the verse to give him the space. He has no need to insert modes over it for his solo, but because I’ve created the feeling of a modal shift earlier he’s left with that impression, although at the point he’s playing it isn’t actually there.

 

[danny la rouge]

View attachment 403906

Those would be terrible chords to base your compositional formula on.

 

[danny la rouge]

It’s E, A(b5), and E add9 for non guitarists.

 

[Wilf]

Those would be terrible chords to base your compositional formula on.

Yes, I've seen variations on that diagram ever since it appeared, mid punk, sometime in the late 70s. Never actually thought what they were or how they sounded. Just strummed them, yikes! Not exactly the song of the Ood!

 

[belboid]

It’s E, A(b5), and E add9 for non guitarists.

well, now you've said that we can all tell it's absurd!