Do you now support military action against Syria's government?

[Barking_Mad]

Guardian last week,

'There is next to no doubt that chemical weapons were used in Ghouta in eastern Damascus, and that, unlike previous alleged attacks, they produced mass casualties. Whether the death toll is in the hundreds or over a thousand, as the rebels claim, this is one of the most significant chemical weapons attacks since Saddam Hussein's on the Kurds in Halabja 25 years ago, and an unmistakable challenge to the vow Barack Obama made a year ago that, if proved, the use of chemical or biological weapons would "change my calculus".

'Nor is there much doubt about who committed the atrocity.'

Guardian today,

'Syria debate: parliament did its job when it mattered

'The government has been prevented from mounting a foolish attack, leaving the PM humiliated and Labour with great credit'

 

[Barking_Mad]

MSF Donations

 

[Barking_Mad]

The last time a Prime Minister was defeated over an issue of war and peace was in 1782.

 

[elbows]

So after the vote in the commons, is that it? or will they go back for another vote when the weapons inspectors have given their report?

Thats it, they won't go back. Cameron didn't leave enough wiggle room in his post-vote language for that, and Hammond confirmed on Newsnight that we wouldn't be joining in with this particular action.

The only way we would go back to it is if something new happens in Syria in future that leads to a completely fresh round of intervention, and even then we may not risk it (would depend on what events happened exactly).

 

[kebabking]

The last time a Prime Minister was defeated over an issue of war and peace was in 1782.

i wouldn't be that surprised if the Government - or, given the complexities of a coalition government and this 5 year parliament - the Prime Minister, resign.

a war and peace motion is, in 'confidence' terms, more important than a finance bill. Blair would not have survived the loss of the Iraq motion in 2003, Thatcher would not have survived the loss of the Falklands votes in 1982. i'm not convinced that Cameron can survive this - or, infact - would want to.

 

[Sprocket.]

Hindsight being a terrible curse, do we now think Cameron wishes he had left them all on holiday?

 

[Steel Icarus]

I noted with interest Paddy Ashdown on the BBC this morning saying something along the lines of "the British people don't want to get involved in any conflict in Syria - that's why they need political leadership". So shut up, peasants, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[ska invita]

Thats it, they won't go back. Cameron didn't leave enough wiggle room in his post-vote language for that, and Hammond confirmed on Newsnight that we wouldn't be joining in with this particular action.

The only way we would go back to it is if something new happens in Syria in future that leads to a completely fresh round of intervention, and even then we may not risk it (would depend on what events happened exactly).

the chances of "something else happening" are almost guaranteed

 

[dylanredefined]

I noted with interest Paddy Ashdown on the BBC this morning saying something along the lines of "the British people don't want to get involved in any conflict in Syria - that's why they need political leadership". So shut up, peasants, you don't know what you're talking about.

What a cunt. Didn't hitler say something along the lines of people not wanting war and having to be convinced it is a good idea? The whole point of democracy is the people
get a say in stuff.

Now if this was a hollywood film he would grab his old sbs mates and mount a daring raid to blow up the wmds and kill Assad.
As it isn't he can shut up.
Can we bomb the bad guys without making things worse for the ordinary Syrians? I'm pretty sure we cannot. And bombing a stockpile of chemical weapons is just a dumb.

 

[co-op]

the chances of "something else happening" are almost guaranteed

Absolutely. Especially with a little assistance from the relevant special forces.

 

[elbows]

Well that this stage I would not like to try to estimate exactly what sort of event would get the UK to revisit the idea of military action. Even some different noises from the UN could be enough, but I'm not really sure since they aren't used to losing this kind of vote in parliament.

 

[Barking_Mad]

US Poll re: military action in Syria:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/08/28/americans-syria-not-our-responsibility/

 

[sunny jim]

No it isn't this is something that's cropped up in online videos quite a lot. Its basically a homemade spigot mortar, the round seems to be a gas canister packed with explosives. It even has a name " Hell Cannon"

Why is the mortar missile the colour blue then in the first video? Wouldnt this mark it out as different from more conventional rockets? Genuine question, I'm not arguing for the sake of it.

 

[ska invita]

US Poll re: military action in Syria:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/08/28/americans-syria-not-our-responsibility/

out of interest i wonder what polls were like throughout the war on Vietnam

 

[peterkro]

out of interest i wonder what polls were like throughout the war on Vietnam

Support started out over 60% and dropped to under 30%:

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/learning_history/vietnam/vietnam_pubopinion.cfm

 

[Sprocket.]

out of interest i wonder what polls were like throughout the war on Vietnam

The only statistic re Vietnam I ever remember is the truly awful casualty figure of American losses just over 58,000
Vietnamese losses 5 million, 1 million of these were combatants of North and South Vietnam.

 

[Quartz]

Daniel Hannan makes an interesting point about the vote and the authority of Parliament:

In fact, we have just witnessed a rather beautiful moment. The House of Commons has recovered a prerogative that it wielded for a few brief years in the 1640s, namely control over the deployment of armed power.

 

[sunny jim]

Vietnamese losses 5 million, 1 million of these were combatants of North and South Vietnam.

Shit thats terrible, 4m civilians dead

 

[Sprocket.]

Shit thats terrible, 4m civilians dead

A terrible holocaust rained down on a poor population.

 

[JHE]

When Britain went along with Uncle Sam and France didn't, the French were called cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Now that France is willing to go along with Uncle Sam and Britain isn't, what are they going to call the British?

Cheddar-munching... ? Cricket-playing... ? Beer-swilling... ? Telly-watching... ? Nah...

There's gotta be something better. I think the big problem is that our most obvious vices, like gluttony, are shared quite conspicuously by Americans.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

When Britain went along with Uncle Sam and France didn't, the French were called cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Now that France is willing to go along with Uncle Sam and Britain isn't, what are they going to call the British?

Cheddar-munching... ? Cricket-playing... ? Beer-swilling... ? Telly-watching... ? Nah...

There's gotta be something better. I think the big problem is that our most obvious vices, like gluttony, are shared quite conspicuously by Americans.

Toby Young has used "crisp-eating". On the other hand, he is a massive cunt.

 

[nino_savatte]

Daniel Hannan makes an interesting point about the vote and the authority of Parliament:

So did his buddy Carswell, but he voted in favour. Carswell's one confused mutha fucka.

Hannan's just applying lipstick to a pig's lips. He's a joker.

 

[fishfinger]

When Britain went along with Uncle Sam and France didn't, the French were called cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Now that France is willing to go along with Uncle Sam and Britain isn't, what are they going to call the British?

Cheddar-munching... ? Cricket-playing... ? Beer-swilling... ? Telly-watching... ? Nah...

There's gotta be something better. I think the big problem is that our most obvious vices, like gluttony, are shared quite conspicuously by Americans.

They'll be serving freedom muffins in the US

 

[ska invita]

Daniel Hannan makes an interesting point about the vote and the authority of Parliament:

made yesterday by our own Delroy Booth IIRC. Who needs the mainstream press

 

[Pickman's model]

No it isn't this is something that's cropped up in online videos quite a lot. Its basically a homemade spigot mortar, the round seems to be a gas canister packed with explosives. It even has a name " Hell Cannon"

the commentary leaves something to be desired, it's really rather repetitive.

 

[Pickman's model]

anyway i've changed my mind and i now support military action against syria. a small plane could land david cameron and the rest of the cabinet, armed to the teeth, somewhere in syria and then we could take bets on how long they'd last before they were captured, probably tortured and brutally executed on video.

 

[likesfish]

anyway i've changed my mind and i now support military action against syria. a small plane could land david cameron and the rest of the cabinet, armed to the teeth, somewhere in syria and then we could take bets on how long they'd last before they were captured, probably tortured and brutally executed on video.

Although Assad being an a1 cunt would parade them on tv and then send them home to the UK

 

[captain acab]

Apologies if this video has been posted before. It shows men in civvies arming and firing what looks to be a chemical weapon. Obviously it cant
be verified but some one looks to have fired a CW and it wasnt the regular Syrian army.

improvised mortar made out of a propane tank full of explosives, bit of a guerilla classic that one - used to be called a barrack buster back where i was born

 

[Fez909]

When Britain went along with Uncle Sam and France didn't, the French were called cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Now that France is willing to go along with Uncle Sam and Britain isn't, what are they going to call the British?

Cheddar-munching... ? Cricket-playing... ? Beer-swilling... ? Telly-watching... ? Nah...

There's gotta be something better. I think the big problem is that our most obvious vices, like gluttony, are shared quite conspicuously by Americans.

Créme Anglais will now become créme de liberté

 

[Fuchs66]

Why is the mortar missile the colour blue then in the first video? Wouldnt this mark it out as different from more conventional rockets? Genuine question, I'm not arguing for the sake of it.

Because it's a homemade weapon using commercial, domestic gas cannisters packed with explosives and they come in a variety of colours, I guess painting them to produce a uniform look isn't high on the priority list of those who are manufacturing them.

the commentary leaves something to be desired, it's really rather repetitive.

It always is isn't it