Do you now support military action against Syria's government?

[JHE]

GGG's speech in the House of Commons: a cracker of a little speech (though marred by fibbing about his attempt to blame Israel).

 

[likesfish]

Problem is the moss bros and others arnt actually that popular even if they get power.

 

[JHE]

Problem is the moss bros and others arnt actually that popular even if they get power.

In the Parliamentary elections in Egypt, they got about 38% of the vote and even more hardline Islamists got a further 28%. Getting on for 70% of votes were for Islamists.

Moss Bros are the most important political movement in Egypt. (Other Islamists, some linked to Moss Bros, are the most important in other countries.) The Egyptian army, with the support of Mr Blair, think there's some police/military solution to the problem. Silly sods.

 

[ska invita]

GGG's speech in the House of Commons: a cracker of a little speech (though marred by fibbing about his attempt to blame Israel).

this must be it

 

[JHE]

Two cheers too for sceptical John Redwood's speech.

 

[Corax]

So hang on, they reckon there are stockpiles of chemical weapons right?

So the plan is airstrikes???

Errmm.....

 

[Tankus]

Yeah ...bomb what..?.....bunch of Shinto Buddhist's sitting in a car on the road to Damascus ?....

Greenwomans right about no lessons learnt over Iraq , as Chillcots comic is still sitting in a locked desk drawer, release delayed for maximum labour embarrassment just before the next elections.

 

[Tankus]

Dp

 

[JHE]

So hang on, they reckon there are stockpiles of chemical weapons right?

So the plan is airstrikes???

Errmm.....

The point was made well, though softly, by Redwood

 

[ska invita]

Just been listening to a bit of the parliamentary debate...seems like a nice chance for everyone who voted for war against Hussain to say "we won't be tricked again", and reinforce the idea that they were tricked last time - the general public wasnt tricked last time, so that excuse doesnt wash with me. I wonder if some MPs will vote against in order to clean some of the blood off their hands...

 

[JHE]

... the general public wasnt tricked last time...

A lot of people were against the invasion of Iraq, but the level of support was a lot higher than the 11% which, according to a poll quoted in this debate (by GGG), now support attacking Syria. I think the disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq have made British people a lot more sceptical about military adventures.

 

[ska invita]

A lot of people were against the invasion of Iraq, but the level of support was a lot higher than the 11% which, according to a poll quoted in this debate (by GGG), now support attacking Syria. I think the disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq have made British people a lot more sceptical about military adventures.

id hope so

 

[Fuchs66]

id hope so

Do you think it will make a difference in the end?

 

[Tankus]

Merthyr and Rhymney was just getting into his stride but badly cut short excellent off the cuff speech about lack of compartmentalisation of warfare and that the UK's military base in Cyprus would be retaliatory target numero primo.

I hope they include it in Obamas 5 min goldfish briefing highlight tape.....just skip millies effort
.
It feels somewhat inevitable that Cameron is going to go on manoeuvres to get what he ultimately wants,.......a property portfolio the size of Blair's

 

[JHE]

Do you think it will make a difference in the end?

British public opinion can affect votes in the HoC. Votes in the HoC can obstruct British participation in the proposed attack on Syria, though votes in the HoC cannot stop the US government doing whatever it decides. The world notices the HoC sometimes. (Both Spanish TV and French TV are reporting the debate.) But US policy is not much shaped by the parliament of a second-rate European power like the UK or France.

 

[elbows]

But in this case it is possible for US policy to be shaped by such a thing, if it goes in a certain way that really pisses on their desired message, especially when taken with other factors that make them think twice about military action. It's not just the UK that suffered some fallout from Iraq, and US intelligence propaganda credibility has yet to fully recover from the lies about Iraqi WMD. We shall see.

 

[Corax]

Yeah ...bomb what..?.....bunch of Shinto Buddhist's sitting in a car on the road to Damascus ?....

No, we bomb the chemical weapons stockpiles, dummy!

 

[likesfish]

In the Parliamentary elections in Egypt, they got about 38% of the vote and even more hardline Islamists got a further 28%. Getting on for 70% of votes were for Islamists.

Moss Bros are the most important political movement in Egypt. (Other Islamists, some linked to Moss Bros, are the most important in other countries.) The Egyptian army, with the support of Mr Blair, think there's some police/military solution to the problem. Silly sods.

A lot of the oppostion didnt actually vote

 

[likesfish]

We could solve the syrian problem in about 3 minutes syria reduced to a gently glowing wasteland problem solved.
thats insane you say?
So a few hundred tonnnes of high explosive is suppoused to do what?

 

[Frumious B.]

No, we bomb the chemical weapons stockpiles, dummy!

They've gotta be bombed sometime to stop Al Q getting 'em. I suppose they'll pick a day when it's not too breezy and the Al-Nusra Front are visiting.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

“They emphasised how the air campaign in Syria makes Libya look like a piece of cake. Syrian air defenses are a lot more robust and are much denser, esp around Damascus and on the borders with Israel, Turkey. They are most worried about mobile air defenses, particularly the SA-17s that they’ve been getting recently. It’s still a doable mission, it’s just not an easy one.
“There still seems to be a lot of confusion over what a military intervention involving an air campaign would be designed to achieve. It isn’t clear cut for them geographically like in Libya, and you can’t just create an NFZ (no fly zone) over Homs, Hama region. This would entail a countrywide SEAD (suppression of enemy air defenses) campaign lasting the duration of the war. They don’t believe air intervention would happen unless there was enough media attention on a massacre, like the Gaddafi move against Benghazi.”

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/syria-spooks-wikileaks-military/5502

 

[Frumious B.]

Our govt is insisting that the rebels do not have the type of weapons which were used in the chemical attacks. How can they be so sure? Some of Assad's weapons have been captured and some of his soldiers have joined the rebels.

 

[bi0boy]

I can see they have a case that, on the balance of probabilities, the regime was responsible for the chemical weapons attack that did cause hinders of deaths last week. I wouldn't go further than that though, I don't see the case for military action now.

I don't think claims that the regime wouldn't do this, they had no motive to, therefore it was likely not the regime are rather tenuous.

 

[Tankus]

No, we bomb the chemical weapons stockpiles, dummy!

Redwoods point.... Where? Couple of cans of sarin in the boot of a car?..... large stockpiles ? , or distributed all over the gaff...?.Hans Blix found buried fighter jets in the Iraqi sand with Saddams eye on the aftermath.....Assad's got more smarts than that.

 

[sunny jim]

Apologies if this video has been posted before. It shows men in civvies arming and firing what looks to be a chemical weapon. Obviously it cant
be verified but some one looks to have fired a CW and it wasnt the regular Syrian army.

 

[Frumious B.]

RAF Typhoons should have arrived in Cyprus by now http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/29/typhoon-jets-cyprus-syria-retaliation Are they up to the job? Do they have all the right gadgets? No Blue Circle radar?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Worth remembering this quote from around the time of the Iraq invasion

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/ma...USH.html?_r=1&

 

[Corax]

Redwoods point.... Where? Couple of cans of sarin in the boot of a car?..... large stockpiles ? , or distributed all over the gaff...?.Hans Blix found buried fighter jets in the Iraqi sand with Saddams eye on the aftermath.....Assad's got more smarts than that.

I can't quite work out whether you're genuinely missing the point or not.

 

[kebabking]

RAF Typhoons should have arrived in Cyprus by now http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/29/typhoon-jets-cyprus-syria-retaliation Are they up to the job? Do they have all the right gadgets? No Blue Circle radar?

nah, they actually got a proper radar in this one.

interesting that its Typhoons, because the RAF's stand off and defence suppression weapons (Storm Shaddow and ALARM) and its principle Anti-Armour weapon (Brimstone), aren't integrated onto Typhoon yet.

when its Tornado GR4's, then we're in business, because they can deliver the kind of ordinance you'd use. until then... its certainly interesting that the govt has sent an air defence fighter to Cyprus though - perhaps they think some of the Syrian threats are a bit less blustery than had been imagined?

 

[Quartz]

Presumably the Typhoons are there primarily to kill the Syrian fighter jets to leave the air clear for the Tonkas.