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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

The Winter Oak publishing thing (an anarchist project) seems to have gone full on Great Reset/covid conspiracy.


Their Twitter full of Right Said Fred etc.

E2A: Ah, on a background of more dodgy stuff. In defence of anarchism and antifascism: a reply to the Winter Oak

A one person project by Paul Cudenec apparently.
 
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The Winter Oak publishing thing (an anarchist project) seems to have gone full on Great Reset/covid conspiracy.


Their Twitter full of Right Said Fred etc.

E2A: Ah, on a background of more dodgy stuff. In defence of anarchism and antifascism: a reply to the Winter Oak
Yeah, Architects For Social Housing and that Essex Heckler thing that changes its name every few months were more disappointing, but Winter Oak/Acorn has definitely been dodgy for quite a while (follow-up piece/reply to a reply to that here).
No I've not read that yet. I'll have to give it a read. Thankyou for bringing it to my attention.
Having had a look, I've just seen that there's another follow-up/reply to a reply to that piece here:

(For completists, here's the in-between piece from some Montreal anarchists criticising the first crypto-eugenics article, it's a bit shit though: You Can’t be Anti-State & Pro-Lock-down – A response to “Anarchy, Lock-downs, and Crypto-Eugenics” » Montréal Counter-information )
 
In the where are they now freedoming the land section:
Bristol tattoist fined for lockdown breaches
He warned one police officer he would be "issuing £10,000 fines for any more visits"
Bradford hairdresser fined for lockdown breaches

Lockdown defying hairdresser Sinead Quinn refuses to attend court as she 'does not accept the role of a defendant'​

She failed to appear at court, and Magistrates were told she had returned the envelope with the court summons inside - with a letter saying the contents had remained “unseen.”

The letter claimed the package was not correctly addressed and added: “It is required that the verified contract signed by us with a verified claim with the name of a man/woman as plaintiff is shown within seven days of this notice.

“We have no legal obligation in this matter until this is shown.”
 
Three family members die after being deterred from getting vaccinated by online disinformation.

Screenshot 2021-08-15 17.19.48.png
 
The Essex Heckler thing as well? FFS.
They're not like the worst of the worst, but definitely closer to the "anti-lockdown" end of things than I'd like, and have apparently been going to the "freedom" marches to give out their papers. And they now have a blog with Architects for Social Housing, Winter Oak, and that Wrong Kind of Green site in the rss feed thing down the side, which is suggestive of where they're at. If you're interested in where they're currently at, this is recent from them:
 
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Noticed 'Samfanto' commenting on there. He does the 'Dialectical Delinquents' blog/website, and has gone down that wormhole as well. He was a crank at the best of times even before this tbh, proper weird loon now.
 
Shame, he'd definitely had cranky tendencies for years, but some of the old BM Combustion stuff was really influential on me when I first read it.
 
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Shame, he'd definitely had cranky tendencies for years, but some of the old BM Combustion stuff was really influential on me when I first read it.

Yeah same. There's something about cranky older ultraleft men who spend too much time on the internet and have no moderating peer group that seem to fall that way. I think elements of simplistic anarchism fuel it as well, their fixation on the State and police just ends up in a total mis-reading of the situation where the State has desperately avoided lockdowns and restrictions rather more than been keen for them.
 
What can I do to persuade my son to get vaccinated? He's reluctant because he "has no evidence the vaccination has been properly tested", saying it was made too fast to be safe.
The tech has been in research for many years. It isn’t new. The reason for it happening so quickly is because it was already well developed.
 
ill will have received some stick for publishing agamben's pieces written during the pandemic, but whatever issues that may exist/been interpreted from those, this latest (joint) piece on the proposed green pass is worth a read and consideration.

 
ill will have received some stick for publishing agamben's pieces written during the pandemic, but whatever issues that may exist/been interpreted from those, this latest (joint) piece on the proposed green pass is worth a read and consideration.

Ill Will have put out some really good stuff and I quite like some of Gittlitz's work, but I thought this recent piece from Gittlitz and JF veered a bit on the dodgy side as well:

As for Agamben, I find the daft old sod barely readable at the best of times so I'm probably not the best person to give it a cool unbiased read and consideration, but on trying to give it a quick skim I didn't find this particularly impressive:
Since it unfortunately seems necessary to do so, I will now take the opportunity to clarify what a legal-political analogy is. We have been unjustifiably accused of drawing a comparison between the discrimination resulting from the green pass and the persecution of the Jews. It is worthwhile to specify once and for all that only a fool could equate the two phenomena, which are obviously very different. No less foolish would be someone who refuses to examine the purely juridical analogy — I am a jurist by training — between two legislations such as the fascist legislation regarding Jewish people and the legislation that would institute the green pass. Perhaps it is not unnecessary to point out that both provisions were adopted by decree, and that both, for those who do not have a merely positivistic conception of law, are unacceptable, because — regardless of the reasons given — they necessarily produce a discrimination against a category of human beings to which a Jewish person ought to be particularly sensitive.
I'm not saying that vaccines are like the holocaust, but if you think about it, aren't vaccines a bit like the holocaust, eh? Eh?
 
Ill Will have put out some really good stuff and I quite like some of Gittlitz's work, but I thought this recent piece from Gittlitz and JF veered a bit on the dodgy side as well:

As for Agamben, I find the daft old sod barely readable at the best of times so I'm probably not the best person to give it a cool unbiased read and consideration, but on trying to give it a quick skim I didn't find this particularly impressive:

I'm not saying that vaccines are like the holocaust, but if you think about it, aren't vaccines a bit like the holocaust, eh? Eh?
Worra twat!
 
Yeah, on reflection I have some more thoughts on both the Gittlitz and Agamben Ill Will articles. First, on the Gittlitz:

While punks were largely opposed to the war on terror and the security state, refusing imperialism abroad and tyranny at home in the name of safety, the war on Covid and its biosecurity measures have been relatively popular in punk circles. Punks preach tirelessly against the government, but at the pivotal moment when the capitalist state’s inadequacies were laid bare, their response was largely to publicly demand full compliance with public health authorities and self-police against any illegal assemblies, no matter how cautious.
This bit is, I think, a classic bit of stupid-that-thinks-it's-clever. "How come when the US dropped white phosphorous on Fallujah and the cops shot de Menezes, you said that was bad, but when you got asked to work from home or get paid to not go to work, you didn't say that was bad? Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical to you?"
This is not to say all the punks who took Covid seriously are safety punks. Without articulating an anti-lockdown politics, many punks, anarchists, and other traditionally danger-attracted political subcultures stared the virus in the face to test the vagaries of early COVID-restrictions. They set up mutual aid networks, organized rent strikes, and fought police in chaotic melees at the frontlines of the demonstrations. In those first months of lockdown it was assumed that everything from handing out bags of groceries to the public, engaging the police, going to jail, or assembling with one’s neighbors, however masked, were likely routes to a potentially deadly infection. It was at least late June before we figured out for sure that outdoor demonstrations did not constitute “super spreader events,” as many politicians and pundits were arguing to discredit the rebellion. We gathered nonetheless, deeming this risk worthwhile.

Despite their courage and effective rejection of the neoliberal lockdown in the US, this punk faction of mutual aid and anti-state rebellion never explicitly framed itself as rejecting Covid protocol. The result is that punks and the left in general have drifted in the popular imagination farther away from oppositional culture, often appearing more like eager hall monitors of the biosecurity state.

Similarly, I think it's worth examining what the mutual aid work that that they describes as "effective rejection of lockdown" looked like - in Portland, anarchists and antifascists were manufacturing hand sanitizer for frontline workers and homeless people, and pretty much everywhere people did the shopping for their neighbours so that other people could self-isolate. To say that those actions are effectively the same thing as an anti-lockdown protest is... well, it's a bit "everything is exactly the same as everything else", innit? And that's not even getting into the situation in prisons, where people agitated for early release in order to be able to self-isolate more effectively, and inmates on Rikers Island organised a strike to demand proper PPE - I don't think you can call that "rejection of lockdown", but it hardly seems like being "hall monitors of the biosecurity state" either.

On the Il Rovescio/Agamben texts, I'm genuinely curious about what this bit is meant to mean:
tens of thousands of people took to the streets — and will do so again in the coming period — to assert that they do not accept a society divided in two (do you know where the first signs with the words "health pass = apartheid" appeared? It was in the streets of Israel).
Now, it seems to me to that the only possible way anyone who wasn't a complete clown could write that sentence would be to mean "if you live in Israel, and you don't recognise the normal functioning of your society as being apartheid and a society divided in two, including the genuine scandal of unequal access to the vaccine, but you think that the idea of a vaccine passport is an unacceptable step into apartheid, you must be one of the dimmest cunts alive". But that bit from the Agamben article I mentioned above, about "a discrimination against a category of human beings to which a Jewish person ought to be particularly sensitive", makes it sound like there could be another, much worse meaning, about "see, the vaccine passports must be apartheid, if an Israeli/Jew says so then it must be true".

More generally, I suppose I'd find the Gittlitz/Rovescio/Agamben line of argument more convincing if there was no other social contestation going on, if it really was that the state vs the antivaxxers was the only game in town. But that's not the case, there's loads of other people pushing back against the extension of social control one way or another. As we see, Gittlitz deals with this by just claiming that doing the shopping for your neighbours, setting cop cars on fire in anti-police riots, and anti-lockdown protests are actually all the same thing; Rovescio seems to just slag everything else off for being "typical decomposition into the arenas of environmental defense, support for the unemployed in struggle, opposition to racist apparatuses" whereas only anti-vax passport stuff is "a confrontation with the Emergency as a total social fact". Like, they specifically diss "the "unitary statement" by rank and file unionists for the general strike of October 18" for not talking about vaccine passports, cos a general strike organised by rank and file unionists isn't proper rebellion unless it's about vaccine passports. As far as I can see they don't mention Natascia Savio's hunger strike, but presumably the same objection would apply there.

I'm curious as to what it was that cloudyday thought was good about those texts?
 
I'm curious as to what it was that cloudyday thought was good about those texts?
The Gittlitz stuff aside (I've not read the article you linked above), I thought the Agamben piece I posted provided a better example of some of the 'covid passport critical points' that were being discussed previously on this thread. I was pretty dismissive of agamben's earlier pieces at the beginning of the pandemic, but have since found the gist of his writing I've dipped into (i.e. the state of exception) and how that potentially relates to the current situation worth thinking about, if only to get a broader view of differing positions on the left.
 
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