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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

Orang Utan said:
does anyone else worry that all this is going to cause serious long-lasting division amongst people?
Click to expand...
I’m not convinced you have the cause and effect the right way round, there. At the very least, it’s a case of positive feedback rather than purely in the direction you perceive it. An increased atomisation of society created the conditions for conspiracism rather than vice versa.
 
Saw some anti-vax stencil graffiti near where I live last night, was a line of syringes with POISON and VACCINE above and below each one. Right on a main pedestrian area near a large supermarket. It's something that's taken an amount of commitment and organisation; making a stencil, buying spray paint, going out. Wondered what demographic is doing that, some younger white hippie natural health type I'd have thought most likely.

(We scraped it off btw.)
 
I was waiting to get in the lift yesterday with an elderly woman in her 70s. She was wearing a 'mask exempt' badge. I was going to let her take the lift on her own but she insisted. When I told her she's almost certainly going to be safe in my company seeing as I've had two jabs and caught covid, she told me she won't take the vaccine 'for a couple of years' until it's 'fully tested.'

I politely suggested that it is, and that she should to no avail. I really worry about vulnerable people like her.
 
editor said:
I was waiting to get in the lift yesterday with a woman in her 70s. She was wearing a mass exempt badge. I was going to let her take the lift on her own but she insisted. When I told her she's almost certainly going to be safe seeing as I've had two jabs and caught covid, she told me she won't take the vaccine 'for a couple of years' until it's 'fully tested.'

I politely suggested that it is, and that she should to no avail. I really worry about vulnerable people like her.
Click to expand...
I have the same problem with someone I'm very fond of. She has the exact same approach. She's not antivax, wears a mask everywhere and generally avoids crowds but just will not take the vaccine for the same reasons. The discovery of new side effects, however minor and however rare, doesn't help.

'How do you know side effects won't become apparent much further down the line?' and no matter how much I say it's extremely unlikely and that catching covid will do far more damage than any possible vax side effects it doesn't go in. She has shown me stuff that is very obviously antivax loon bullshit and it makes me really angry with people spreading this shit. Thankfully she's not vulnerable and will probably have a mild case but it still worries me.
 
Anything that can do something a couple of years down the line that will fit into the incredibly small dose would be a wonder of science ...

And in any case what these people never know is that there are at least FOUR distinct covid vaccine technologies in play.
 
What I find interesting is the "sitting duck" thing. Surely they must, somewhere within, be thinking "shit I might catch it. Long covid. Death, etc". That MUST be a factor now in their thinking. As has been said, they ARE now the control group. . I bet there's a few nails being chewed everywhere, suppressed, warded off a little with a little dive down the rabbit hole here and there for comfort. They must feel like the target has shifted to them, even as they hold onto the idea its not real. I still get creeped out by covid, even with my two jabs.
 
BigMoaner said:
What I find interesting is the "sitting duck" thing. Surely they must, somewhere within, be thinking "shit I might catch it. Long covid. Death, etc". That MUST be a factor now in their thinking. As has been said, they ARE now the control group. . I bet there's a few nails being chewed everywhere, suppressed, warded off a little with a little dive down the rabbit hole here and there for comfort. They must feel like the target has shifted to them, even as they hold onto the idea its not real. I still get creeped out by covid, even with my two jabs.
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the thing is, there are so many flavours of them you can't really tell.
 
S☼I said:
What can I do to persuade my son to get vaccinated? He's reluctant because he "has no evidence the vaccination has been properly tested", saying it was made too fast to be safe.
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Here's a few reasons:

FACT: Studies found that the two initial vaccines are both about 95% effective — and reported no serious or life-threatening side effects. There are many reasons why the COVID-19 vaccines could be developed so quickly. Here are just a few:

  • The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.
  • China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
  • The vaccine developers didn’t skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.
  • Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.
  • Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.
  • Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.
  • Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.
  • Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.
www.hopkinsmedicine.org

COVID-19 Vaccine: What You Need to Know

Now that COVID-19 vaccines are authorized, here are the facts you need now.
www.hopkinsmedicine.org www.hopkinsmedicine.org
 
S☼I said:
What can I do to persuade my son to get vaccinated? He's reluctant because he "has no evidence the vaccination has been properly tested", saying it was made too fast to be safe.
Click to expand...
I actually used to work in pharma and the whole research procedure was entirely as normal for the vaccines - what it does show, though, is how most of the time in drug development is down to bureaucratic delays rather than testing, which are not about any sort of thorough examination of the statistics, just slowness. In this case there was clearly a lot of push to cut those delays and have things actually looked at on time. The trials themselves were very standard in their length, just like they would be in any other case.

ETA: I'm aware that I am just some twat on the internet but this is what I say to people IRL if that comes up.
 
S☼I said:
What can I do to persuade my son to get vaccinated? He's reluctant because he "has no evidence the vaccination has been properly tested", saying it was made too fast to be safe.
Click to expand...

These articles helped to persuade a couple of people I know.

www.theguardian.com

The Covid vaccine arrived quickly – but there's every reason to trust it | Charlotte Summers

It’s safe, it works, and it gives a tantalising glimpse of what else might be achieved given sufficient political will, says Dr Charlotte Summers, of the University of Cambridge
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

www.theguardian.com

How has a Covid vaccine been developed so quickly?

Analysis: Funding and high public interest contributed to slashing of research and approval time
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

www.theguardian.com

The vaccine miracle: how scientists waged the battle against Covid-19

We trace the extraordinary research effort, from the discovery of the virus’s structure to the start of inoculations this week
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
FridgeMagnet said:
I actually used to work in pharma and the whole research procedure was entirely as normal for the vaccines - what it does show, though, is how most of the time in drug development is down to bureaucratic delays rather than testing, which are not about any sort of thorough examination of the statistics, just slowness. In this case there was clearly a lot of push to cut those delays and have things actually looked at on time. The trials themselves were very standard in their length, just like they would be in any other case.

ETA: I'm aware that I am just some twat on the internet but this is what I say to people IRL if that comes up.
Click to expand...
Oh and the thing that's everywhere about how "they've not finished the trials" is a complete (deliberate) misunderstanding of how clinical trials work. Phase IV trials always take place after a drug is released and used - they're enhanced monitoring once it's in general use. Phase III has been completed with the vaccines.
 
People don’t really believe what they’re told. Ask him in good faith and with openness how long he thinks a vaccine should take to come to market and why? What are the steps? What is involved in each step? How much time does that add up to? Maybe he can then come to see that it is a fear of unknown things rather than the scientific objection he believes it to be
 
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