Did the US Troops really capture Saddam
- Thread starter JFC
- Start date
So what about your hilali dates that fruit in September? You BELIEVE in that, even though you have never seen a halili date!
editor
hiraethified
I've already told you that I have no wish to waste any more of my time trying to educate you about the presence of December date harvests in Iraq, so why don't you just answer my question?
Do you believe that Earth is regularly being visited by alien spacecraft ?
You've already told us that you've definitely seen one, so why are you being so coy about elaborating on the details?
Nah not smoking owt mate. Early crisp mountain morning with me, a bit on the nippish side, and thoroughly looking forward to a holiday game of golf, so don't want to ruin my chances of a good game by drugging myself!
Plus, if a ufo swoops over the hill on the 13th, i want to be sure i saw it...
I'm made for everyone mate, and no-one!
Good to see a sense of humour at work, i can forget that when i see you laying into your latest 'nutter' target whoever they may be. I see you have now put raisin in this category. You should be proud we all come flocking to your site...
Ps, a UFO and an alien spacecraft are not the same thing, that's why they have different language... so do be very careful not to mix them up, especially as raisin has only talked about a UFO, and hasn't once mentioned aliens.
I told you already, that I dont know whether the earth is being visisted regularly BUT that I have seen a UFO as in unidentified flying object, in bright day light. And I know you dont want to approach the hilali dates fruiting in September and not December, as you hoped everyone would accept Hutchinsons without doubt. I have shown that your claims can be doubted without having to resort to your underhand tactics. I hope everyone here has understood you.
So do you believe in the hilali?
Oh and by the way I have changed my tag to "Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity." Another Marshall McLuhan quote. So you dont have to go poking around in what should be my private profile.
editor
hiraethified
I'm not sure how I can do that. Is it some sort of cult thing?
However, I can - for the last time - tell you once again that halali dates can be harvested in Iraq in December, and hope that this simple fact will finally seep into your dense, conspiracy-excited mind. Read the words carefully.
Is your conspiracy-tastic mind still not convinced?
Then how about this?
Seeing as even the Iraqis are paying no attention to your fruitloop theory, perhaps you might explain why they (along with the encyclopedia) are all wrong and you are right?
Or perhaps you may be mature enough to admit that you got it all wrong and that you should have done some basic research before posting up a load of unmitigated shite?
Face it: you've made a complete clown of yourself on this. YOu're as wrong as Billy Wrong doing a wrong thing on All Wrong's Day!
Looking forward to your apology!
montevideo
New Member
No i'm not questioning the fact dates ripen between june & december in middle eastern & mediterranean countries. In fact here is some more (detailed) information about the ripening process of dates:
"The growth and development of date palm fruit involves several external and internal changes. These changes are often classified on the basis of change in colour and chemical composition of the fruit, as five distinct stages of fruit development, known as Hababouk, Kimri, Khalal, Rutab and Tamar. (Tamar - also called full ripe stage or final stage in the ripening. This is the stage when the dates are fully ripe, and they completely change the colour from yellow to dull brown or almost black. The texture of the flesh is soft. The skin in most varieties adheres to the flesh, and wrinkles as the flesh shrinks. The colour of the skin and of the underlying flesh darkens with time).
Harvesting in the northern hemisphere takes place at the end of summer and in the fall, starting at the end of July (depending on the geographical area), with the harvesting of the Khalal varieties (especially Barhee), and ending in the middle of November.
The stages are as follows:
Khalal: Physiological mature, hard and crisp, moisture content: 50 - 85 %, bright yellow or red in colour, perishable;
Rutab: Partially browned, reduced moisture content (30 - 45 %), fibres softened, perishable;
Tamar: Colour from amber to dark brown, moisture content further reduced (below 25 % down to 10% and less), texture from soft pliable to firm to hard, protected from insects it can be kept without special precautions over longer periods.
In general, when dates reach the Khalal stage, they are regarded to be ready for trading as "fresh" fruit. Dates in Khalal stage are the first in the harvesting season and therefore have aready market. Only date varieties with a low amount of tannin at Khalal stage are suitable for consumption".
source
To answer your second question: it proves nothing beyond reasonable doubt. Indeed the more information you have the greater the clarity of doubt is. Indeed the hutchinson reference is so vague & general it has little meaning. It certainly doesn't 'prove' anything. So to answer your third question, yes i have a problem with that.
The point of my post is this: you berate people is the most hostile manner & insulting terms yet you yourself are guilty of using the same criteria. Your source's (gleened for the internet) are there to re-inforce your opinion (sound familiar? an accusation thrown many times at 'conspiracy theorist nutter' par excellence dr jazzz) & are not a full & objective point of information.
What kind of dates do you think are on the tree in the photograph? At what stage of ripening to you consider them to be?
You fail to mention your STARS & STRIPES source. Why is that?
Sources for all the information i have given you above is from here
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/006/Y4360E/y4360e00.htm#Contents
which is not a patriotic US website attached to the military.
PS this website claim fresh hilali dates are red in colour. Would say say this website is wrong & misinformed?
http://www.theproducehunter.com/productdisplay.asp?ID=1998
There's nothing to clarify. Raisin has said everything about it all very clearly.
You, yet again, are taking an opportunity to expose your very real problems over certain freely expressed viewpoints in a country supposedly tolerant of free speech.
Your apparant need to humiliate people is quite a british trait as it happens.
It is unbecoming. Ane telling.
editor
hiraethified
(sigh) I wish you'd read what's been posted up:
"They explained that the lack of fertilisation hampered the process of ripening by which the dates converted from hard yellow to a brown soft. The unfertilised dates called (Shees) or unripe dates. It will remain yellow for long time until the end of March".
And - once again - I will make no apology for being annoyed when people hastily post up unresearched, anonymously-authored bollocks found on some obscure website or another and declare it to be the 'real truth' about some far fetched conspiracy or another.
A brief of piece of research would reveal that the presence of dates in Saddam's arrest photo proves absolutely nothing - so why encourage gullible conspiracy fans to proclaim their evidence-free nonsense as fact?
On a public bulletin board, everything has got to do with me.
Plus i don't like watching bullying and staying silent.
So i speak out in the name of justice/fairness - take your pick.
Sometimes direct questions are not worthy of answers because of the underlying context or connotations.
Raisin talked about unidentified flying objects, and nothing whatsoever about aliens.
Pretty damn unambiguous to this reader anyway.
fela, I have actually had something of a soft spot for you, up till now. But I have to say, your incessant bickering over every little point ever made by anyone might well be you living up to the above quote, but I, for one, am beginning to think you are spreading yourself very thinly. You are losing your substance, mate.
montevideo
New Member
You're absolutely right i should've read all the previous posts because raisin actually raises the very same points i did. Apologies.
You are now saying the dates on the tree are
a) unfertilised
b) ripe
c) ready for harvesting?
Are you still willing to sight the STARS & STRIPES website as an authoritative source about dates?
And again what is this http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/2003_12_01_hammorabi_archive.html if it is not "anonymously-authored bollocks found on some obscure website or another and declare it to be the 'real truth'"?
Whatever raison is doing, you are doing the exact same thing.
editor
hiraethified
The BIG, BIG, BIG difference is that I'm not proclaiming that I've discovered the 'truth' about a huge evil conspiracy that is deceiving the entire (presumably stupid ) world based on something I 'found' on the web somewhere.
I'm not claiming to know more about Saddam than his own daughter and the Iraqi people, neither am I claiming that they've all been deceived because clever ol' me found some vague, anonymously authored information on a website, somewhere that sort of suggests, maybe, that, err, the dates can't possibly grow in December. (Except they can)
Raisin is.
montevideo
New Member
You are both offering opinions. You are both using the web-sourced information as a means of re-inforcing your opinions.
At least raisin in attempting to answer the questions.
Raisin has studiously avoided all of my questions.
There are dates on the tree. The dates are yellow. Raisin has not proven that it is impossible for yellow dates to be hanging on a tree in December in Iraq. He has called it into doubt, but it's all rather inconclusive.
To back up his claim that the photo must be doctored, he claims that Saddam could not have been in operational control of the guerilla forces. First, there's the assumption that the one follows necessarily from the other. Secondly, there's the assumption that guerilla forces cannot continue to operate after a commander is captured or killed. And thirdly, there's the assumption that Saddam did not stray from his spider hole for 8 whole months.
Then there's the sticky issue of Saddam's family members recognising him.
Which questions has Raisin answered, then?
There are dates on the tree. The dates are yellow. Raisin has not proven that it is impossible for yellow dates to be hanging on a tree in December in Iraq. He has called it into doubt, but it's all rather inconclusive.
To back up his claim that the photo must be doctored, he claims that Saddam could not have been in operational control of the guerilla forces. First, there's the assumption that the one follows necessarily from the other. Secondly, there's the assumption that guerilla forces cannot continue to operate after a commander is captured or killed. And thirdly, there's the assumption that Saddam did not stray from his spider hole for 8 whole months.
Then there's the sticky issue of Saddam's family members recognising him.
Which questions has Raisin answered, then?
You'll have to forgive me for not being up-to-speed with the seasonal cycles of Iraqi fruit. But what I would like to know is this:
On what evidence are people believing that this is the real Saddam, and not one of his doubles? Why is it that those of here like Raisin, Montevideo, et al, are being browbeaten by editor into accepting the words of the US military - a group known to be in the business of talking complete bollocks and setting up propaganda coups - instead of saying, well, where is the proof?
Because there is obviously something fishy with the supposed DNA test. The statements about the DNA testing were so dubious that Associated Press referred to the 'apparent' DNA identification. If it was Saddam, it would be no trouble to say "a DNA test has confirmed the identity of the captured man as being Saddam Hussein, and give details of the Laboratory/chief scientist involved. In fact you get the Laboratory to make a statement.
And what happened to the DNA test results of Uday & Qusay Hussein? I'd be very interested to know from those who believe the sons to have been killed how they account for the lack of DNA test results in that case.
And there is apparently another simple way to identify Saddam - by his fingerprint. Why has this not been done?
If you were Saddam, would you live in such a tiny hole??? It's an extraordinary prospect for such a dictator.
But what really gets me is this. It makes absolutely no sense at all for posters like me to be called to present 'proof' for being sceptical, and the US allowed to say whatever it wants, and provide no evidence at all for its claims, let alone proof!
On what evidence are people believing that this is the real Saddam, and not one of his doubles? Why is it that those of here like Raisin, Montevideo, et al, are being browbeaten by editor into accepting the words of the US military - a group known to be in the business of talking complete bollocks and setting up propaganda coups - instead of saying, well, where is the proof?
Because there is obviously something fishy with the supposed DNA test. The statements about the DNA testing were so dubious that Associated Press referred to the 'apparent' DNA identification. If it was Saddam, it would be no trouble to say "a DNA test has confirmed the identity of the captured man as being Saddam Hussein, and give details of the Laboratory/chief scientist involved. In fact you get the Laboratory to make a statement.
And what happened to the DNA test results of Uday & Qusay Hussein? I'd be very interested to know from those who believe the sons to have been killed how they account for the lack of DNA test results in that case.
And there is apparently another simple way to identify Saddam - by his fingerprint. Why has this not been done?
If you were Saddam, would you live in such a tiny hole??? It's an extraordinary prospect for such a dictator.
But what really gets me is this. It makes absolutely no sense at all for posters like me to be called to present 'proof' for being sceptical, and the US allowed to say whatever it wants, and provide no evidence at all for its claims, let alone proof!
No. I don't think he spent any time whatsoever in the hole!
If you had been reading previous threads you would know that I believe Saddam to have been spirited out of Iraq by the US military - with his sons in tow - all probably having undergone reconstructive surgery.
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